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fadzaev2

Greatest top wrestlers all-time, not counting leg wrestlers

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All I'm going to say is.....U.S. Open is going to be great, especially 65 and 74 kgs. and then on to the World Team Trials...World Cup too.

Are you uncomfortable admitting that Dake was a better collegiate wrestler than David Taylor? Or are you still saying the greater college wrestler argument is up for debate?

 

Imo the only people who are holding out on admitting Dake was better are hardcore Taylor/PSU fans. If one of those fans were to see what Dake's wins did for Dake, his coaches,and family and what Taylor's loss did to him, his coaches,and his family I'm confident that they would be singing a different tune. Talk about the thrill of victory and the AGONY of defeat. More on this later.

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the problem with the discussion is that old is inferring things that aren't there. he turned this into a dake/taylor debate which it isn't. to show that dake was so superior he cited the matches against tsargush. I pointed out that some international guys are wildly inconsistent when it is not world's or the olympic's and tsargush was in a slump, not at world champion form when he faced those guys. he asked who I picked thinking I had an agenda pointing that out. those freestyle matches have exactly zero to do with how good they are on top in folkstyle and it is very small when considering how good dake and taylor are overall. we have other result to show dake is slightly ahead of taylor and to claim its easy to see is ridiculous. the folkstyle matches have been tb, 1 pt decision where taylor had :59rt, and the ncaa final was a 1 pt decision that wasn't actually that close because of the late stall call. dake has won both fs match-ups and they had similar results against burroughs.

 

when international guys go into a slump we don't usually have the whole story. was he hurt? was he unmotivated? was he past his prime?  obviously tsargush has pulled out of it and reclaimed the top spot in the world and has results this year to show he is still wrestling at that high level. all of it has nothing to do with the topic.

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Sockobuw,

 

It was very easy for me to see, I picked every match correctly. You didn't. I've been watching wrestling for decades, and I was certain that Dake would beat Taylor. From all that I've seen, and I've seen a lot, Dake is better than Taylor in every position. He's better in neutral, on top, on bottom, and he's better in scrambles. He's quicker, stronger, has better conditioning, better under the bright lights, better under the low lights. He's clearly a better technician, many are mesmerized by Taylor's flash and think that translates into great technique. It doesn't. No many have enough experience to see that many times Taylor scored points on inferior opponents because he simply pushed the pace and overwhelmed them with pressure. Subpar technique was a regular occurrence with Taylor. Had he wrestled the same way against elite competition, he would have been regularly countered and scored upon. That's what happened when he faced Dake and Bubba and Burroughs. There is a big difference in wrestling middle of the road collegiate wrestlers and the country and world's finest. Taylor appears to still be in the process of learning that fact. His former teammate Ed Ruth is still learning this too.

 

Back to the Tsargush point. Sockobuw, even if you want to say that Tsargush wasn't wrestling as well as he is now, that doesn't really make a difference. Rather than Dake/Taylor getting the best Tsargush, the got an inferior one (so you say), okay then. What happened when each wrestler faced the inferior Tsargush? Dake won 10-5 (2 points away from a tech) and Taylor lost 0-8. That's a 13 point swing. Dake handled Tsargush and Taylor was handled by Tsargush. Those are the facts. We have no reason to believe that Dake got a far lesser version of Tsargush than did Taylor. So all of your questions about why Tsargush was wrestling at a lower level are irrelevant. They both wrestled the same lower level Tsargush.

 

Also, as far as collegiate wrestling goes, I don't believe that Dake was only slightly ahead of Taylor. I would say that he was considerably ahead of Taylor. Imo, if they would have continued wrestling collegiate matches, we would have seen a Dake win by fall far sooner than we would have seen a Taylor win. But that's another story that I hope to get into at a later date.

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yes, you want a response and I will bite one last time. you have such a great eye to see the clear difference between two wrestlers that go to 2-1 tb1, 3-2 where the losing wrestler had :59rt, and 5-4. my original post stated that wasn't the debate, only citing that international results are not a good indicator because they are often inconsistent and it has nothing to do with the folkstyle top game of these two. dake has been better than taylor and I stated that when you began pressing psu fandom on me. still nothing to do with the tsargush results. they will certainly meet again if they stay healthy and maybe the debate will actually be about dake/taylor. until then you can use your accute ability to see wrestling ability to pick winners and clean up on sportsbook each year at ncaa's.

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yes, you want a response and I will bite one last time. you have such a great eye to see the clear difference between two wrestlers that go to 2-1 tb1, 3-2 where the losing wrestler had :59rt, and 5-4. my original post stated that wasn't the debate, only citing that international results are not a good indicator because they are often inconsistent and it has nothing to do with the folkstyle top game of these two. dake has been better than taylor and I stated that when you began pressing psu fandom on me. still nothing to do with the tsargush results. they will certainly meet again if they stay healthy and maybe the debate will actually be about dake/taylor. until then you can use your accute ability to see wrestling ability to pick winners and clean up on sportsbook each year at ncaa's.

 

Fokstyle results can also be "inconsistent". When I first mentioned the Tsargush result, I wasn't only discussing the folkstyle "top game" of Dake and Taylor. I was merely using that result to illustrate a point. Please review my post to clear up any confusion that you may still have.

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yes, you were pointing out dake was better than taylor in every position and the difference in their results against tsargush showed that. I understood your point. still was an awful example when the topic is the best top wrestler.

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yes, you were pointing out dake was better than taylor in every position and the difference in their results against tsargush showed that. I understood your point. still was an awful example when the topic is the best top wrestler.

 

The Tsargush results made sense in the context in which I used it. I wasn't merely talking about folkstyle top wrestling in that post.

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