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AnklePicker

If the international styles are so good for your folkstyle...

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The long standing knock on my state is that Illinois guys are good only from neutral and bums on the mat.

Could that be because they spend the majority of their offseasons perfecting a style that they may never have the opportunity to use unless they are fortunate enough to make a world team?

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A lot of the Illinois kids are very advanced at a young age compared to their pers and peak early. The styles don't catch up to them, the competition does.

 

They've dominated the freestyle circuit the last several years at the high school level.  What do you consider a "young age?"

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Yea these underperformers also spent their summers perfecting styles they will never use unless they made the world team.... Dieringer , Stieber, Tomasello, Brewer, Gwiz, 

 

I don't buy that  excuse

 

OK then explain to me why Illinois dominates in freestyle even beating PA but when it comes to folk they aren't very close.  What is the excuse?

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Your reason made no sense at all.  There are no excuses ...just lack of performance.

 

So you feel international style hampers folkstyle performance?  Or only in Illinois.  I just gave you 5 champions this year that would probably disagree with you.

 

The best folkstyle HS state in US had no NCAA champs this year.

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I think there's something to this.

 

Many of the kids tourneys in Ohio start all periods in neutral and have neutral restarts.  This is not as common in Pennsylvania.  What's the case in Illinois?

 

Kids that develop confidence in folkstyle matwork are probably happier to continue developing their matwork skills at every level.  Same probably goes for neutral.  Dominant matwork separates you at NCAAs.

 

It's a virtuous/vicious circle depending on how you look at it.

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Just because Illinois is great at developing Freestyle and greco wrestlers, is doesn't mean their population base is big enough to supply the raw talent necessary to have a butt load of D1 All Americans. 

 

If the best program in a state is a small school, it will still often lose to schools who have six times as many students. 

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I think Illinois does a better job of getting it's best wrestlers to the national competitions in freestyle and greco. Also they have a good coaching staff that's been in charge since Illinois began dominating at freestyle and greco. John Kading has been the head freestyle coach for about 7-8 years now. He was at Overtime Club and last year became the head coach at Chicago Mt. Carmel.

 

I've been to all the Junior National Duals since 2008. Oklahoma (host state) and Illinois usually have their best kids wrestling in the duals. Minnesota also does an excellent job. California, Ohio, and PA overall have better talent, but doesn't get as many of them in the national cadet and junior national duals and to Fargo. That is why the Illinois success in freestyle isn't translating to success in collegiate folkstyle.

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Here are the top 14 folk style recruits from the HS class of 2011.

Rank Name Hometown State Projected Wt. School

1. Morgan McIntosh Santa Ana CA 184 Penn State

2. Destin McCauley Burnsville MN 149 Wisconsin

3. Nico Megaludis Murrysville PA 125 Penn State

4. Jesse Thielke Germantown WI 125 Wisconsin

5. Logan Storley Roslyn SD 174 Minnesota

6. Andrew Campolattano Bound Brook NJ 197 Ohio State

7. Hunter Stieber Monroeville OH 149 Ohio State

8. Austin Ormsbee Andover NJ 141 Oklahoma State

9. Tanner Hall Meridian ID 197 USOEC

10. Mason Beckman Reynolds PA 125 Lehigh

11. Chris Phillips Monroeville OH 174 NC State

12. Kenny Courts Harrisburg PA 184 Ohio State

13. Nick Hodgkins Wyomissing PA 157 Central Michigan

14. Bryce Hammond Bakersfield CA 165 CSU-Bakersfield

 

Combined zero NCAA titles 4 years later. Success at any level in any style doesn't guarantee squat. There were a pair of accomplished freestylers in that same recruiting class that each already have 2 NCAA titles.

 

Point being you can come up with examples on either side of this argument to make whatever case you want. My opinion is that freestyle definitely can't hurt, and probably helps at the very least from an engagement and lack of boredom standpoint.

 

I would also concede that there are certain skill sets that translate better into freestyle, but that doesn't mean those guys would be better folkstylers if they didn't wrestle freestyle.

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Here are the top 14 folk style recruits from the HS class of 2011.

Rank Name Hometown State Projected Wt. School

1. Morgan McIntosh Santa Ana CA 184 Penn State

2. Destin McCauley Burnsville MN 149 Wisconsin

3. Nico Megaludis Murrysville PA 125 Penn State

4. Jesse Thielke Germantown WI 125 Wisconsin

5. Logan Storley Roslyn SD 174 Minnesota

6. Andrew Campolattano Bound Brook NJ 197 Ohio State

7. Hunter Stieber Monroeville OH 149 Ohio State

8. Austin Ormsbee Andover NJ 141 Oklahoma State

9. Tanner Hall Meridian ID 197 USOEC

10. Mason Beckman Reynolds PA 125 Lehigh

11. Chris Phillips Monroeville OH 174 NC State

12. Kenny Courts Harrisburg PA 184 Ohio State

13. Nick Hodgkins Wyomissing PA 157 Central Michigan

14. Bryce Hammond Bakersfield CA 165 CSU-Bakersfield

 

Combined zero NCAA titles 4 years later. Success at any level in any style doesn't guarantee squat. There were a pair of accomplished freestylers in that same recruiting class that each already have 2 NCAA titles.

 

Point being you can come up with examples on either side of this argument to make whatever case you want. My opinion is that freestyle definitely can't hurt, and probably helps at the very least from an engagement and lack of boredom standpoint.

 

I would also concede that there are certain skill sets that translate better into freestyle, but that doesn't mean those guys would be better folkstylers if they didn't wrestle freestyle.

But this begs the question that AnklePicker raised. Instead of looking at one year, look at the last ten years combined. Why hasn't Illinois produced the most or second most NCAA D1 All-Americans in those years. Long term, there appears to be a consistent pattern.

 

I think BigApple is on the right track.

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Here are the top 14 folk style recruits from the HS class of 2011.

Rank Name Hometown State Projected Wt. School

1. Morgan McIntosh Santa Ana CA 184 Penn State

2. Destin McCauley Burnsville MN 149 Wisconsin

3. Nico Megaludis Murrysville PA 125 Penn State

4. Jesse Thielke Germantown WI 125 Wisconsin

5. Logan Storley Roslyn SD 174 Minnesota

6. Andrew Campolattano Bound Brook NJ 197 Ohio State

7. Hunter Stieber Monroeville OH 149 Ohio State

8. Austin Ormsbee Andover NJ 141 Oklahoma State

9. Tanner Hall Meridian ID 197 USOEC

10. Mason Beckman Reynolds PA 125 Lehigh

11. Chris Phillips Monroeville OH 174 NC State

12. Kenny Courts Harrisburg PA 184 Ohio State

13. Nick Hodgkins Wyomissing PA 157 Central Michigan

14. Bryce Hammond Bakersfield CA 165 CSU-Bakersfield

 

Combined zero NCAA titles 4 years later. Success at any level in any style doesn't guarantee squat. There were a pair of accomplished freestylers in that same recruiting class that each already have 2 NCAA titles.

 

Point being you can come up with examples on either side of this argument to make whatever case you want. My opinion is that freestyle definitely can't hurt, and probably helps at the very least from an engagement and lack of boredom standpoint.

 

I would also concede that there are certain skill sets that translate better into freestyle, but that doesn't mean those guys would be better folkstylers if they didn't wrestle freestyle.

 

 

 

What is it that this list is supposed to be telling us?

 

There are numerous Fargo AA, finalists, champs on that list.   

 

Clarify what point it's making or supporting.   Thanks

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Here are the top 14 folk style recruits from the HS class of 2011.

Rank Name Hometown State Projected Wt. School

1. Morgan McIntosh Santa Ana CA 184 Penn State

2. Destin McCauley Burnsville MN 149 Wisconsin

3. Nico Megaludis Murrysville PA 125 Penn State

4. Jesse Thielke Germantown WI 125 Wisconsin

5. Logan Storley Roslyn SD 174 Minnesota

6. Andrew Campolattano Bound Brook NJ 197 Ohio State

7. Hunter Stieber Monroeville OH 149 Ohio State

8. Austin Ormsbee Andover NJ 141 Oklahoma State

9. Tanner Hall Meridian ID 197 USOEC

10. Mason Beckman Reynolds PA 125 Lehigh

11. Chris Phillips Monroeville OH 174 NC State

12. Kenny Courts Harrisburg PA 184 Ohio State

13. Nick Hodgkins Wyomissing PA 157 Central Michigan

14. Bryce Hammond Bakersfield CA 165 CSU-Bakersfield

 

Combined zero NCAA titles 4 years later. Success at any level in any style doesn't guarantee squat. There were a pair of accomplished freestylers in that same recruiting class that each already have 2 NCAA titles.

 

Point being you can come up with examples on either side of this argument to make whatever case you want. My opinion is that freestyle definitely can't hurt, and probably helps at the very least from an engagement and lack of boredom standpoint.

 

I would also concede that there are certain skill sets that translate better into freestyle, but that doesn't mean those guys would be better folkstylers if they didn't wrestle freestyle.

Another thing not on that list are wrestlers from Illinois.

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They've dominated the freestyle circuit the last several years at the high school level.  What do you consider a "young age?"

They've dominated the freestyle circuit the last several years at the high school level.  What do you consider a "young age?"

anything before college is young. in this case the reference is to schoolboy age wrestlers preparing to chase trophies in high school. many of the dominant kids at jrs. were over trained in order to "win now" instead of devloping skill. that gets old quick and others catch up.

 

wrestling another style can't hurt you unless you let it by making excuses. there are always ways to learn and develop from any experience. unless you're a short sighted fool.

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Illinois success at the Cadet and Junior level is the result of a few things like a large number of wrestlers, good overall wrestling, and a dedicated commitment to international styles. Illinois has a program in place to train the international styles, and they do a great job getting many of their best wrestlers to Fargo and the Junior/Cadet duals.

 

Maryland is another example of this in action. They instituted their Path to Fargo and formalized their team selection and training procedures. It has paid off, and they have been more consistent at the national level.

 

Not all states have this kind of system in place, and wrestlers in some states view Fargo as less of a priority. The best wrestlers are having success at this level, regardless of where they come from, but overall team success has more to do with getting many or most of the best wrestlers on the same Fargo/Dual teams. Illinois has been good at this, and the results have shown it.

 

The results may also be showing the difference between freestyle/Greco and folkstyle when it comes to putting wrestlers on the podium at the DI Championships. Everyone is training folkstyle, so the advantages of the Illinois program are mitigated by the fact that wrestling is better overall in some other states, and the fact that there are some pretty stark differences between international and folkstyle wrestling. 

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Just because Illinois is great at developing Freestyle and greco wrestlers, is doesn't mean their population base is big enough to supply the raw talent necessary to have a butt load of D1 All Americans. 

 

If the best program in a state is a small school, it will still often lose to schools who have six times as many students. 

 

According to NWCA, Illinois is the second largest wrestling state in terms of participants in the entire country behind California. (http://www.nwcaonline.com/nwcawebsite/docs/default-source/default-document-library/pdf.pdf?sfvrsn=0)

 

In Illinois, it's all about which high school recruits the IKWF state tournament best in a string of years. I don't know what it's like in other states, but the top Illinois teams have kids who come from all over the region and, in some cases, from across the country. That's not to say that those kids don't continue to develop in high school, but they come into high school already among the best kids at their weight classes. Recruiting established talent from a variety of clubs > developing feeder talent.

Edited by Tofurky

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A lot of the Illinois kids are very advanced at a young age compared to their peers and peak early. The styles don't catch up to them, the competition does.

 

There is a HUGE demand for results at the kid level.

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i expect your joking. if not, why is there a demand?  what is it for?

 

I doubt he is joking; there is a huge demand for results at the kid's level from their parents to make up for the parent's own inadequacies and fears.  not a bit of sarcasm.  Youth sports are becoming increasingly sickening by the minute.

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