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GuillermoBilletas

finally, some common sense in Jersey

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After a little thought, I kind of like this proposal. As SHP mentioned, it does nothing to restrict the opportunities of private or public school kids in their quest for a state title. The talent will still be just as strong with as many kids from privates still taking titles. It will not water-down the state title (which some people seem to think is a big deal).

 

However, this allows the public school kids to gain more regional accomplishments at the district levels. I think this localized accomplishments against peers and the feeling that making state is within reach will actually help to motivate some individuals and communities that may have been relegated to a second tier compared to the private schools they compete against.

 

This is actually a fairly good compromise.

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If the NJSIAA had a separate state championship for private schools, those winners (and maybe top place winners) would be eligible to go to the National Prep Championship. This is what has happened in Tenn. where the same state association has a separate championship for private schools (called Div 2).

This might dramatically change the wrestler culture in NJ for the first few years, but in time it could be an approved adjustment.

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Having a single champ is hurting CA. Foley Mailbag on I intermat does a good job addressing this. I would bet the same is true in NJ. Moving to 2 classes has clearly benefitted NY in getting more exposure and more guys to college level.

 

I know this thread is about NJ, but I want to respond to this. No, the single division is not hurting California. Having lived in California most of my life, it's one of its greatest strengths. 

 

Foley's argument is that more California state champs would equal more recruitment of California wrestlers. It's not this simple. Last year when this topic came up, I emailed the coaches at several D1 programs and asked them whether the single division in California hurt California wrestlers in terms of recruiting. I received 12 responses. Here is part of each response (I'm not just cherry picking the ones that agree with me):

 
"We evaluate based on both talent and potential. We know how tough the state of California is, but winning a state title does not always correlate to developing into an elite college level wrestler, thus I go back to my first sentence, talent and potential. Regardless whether a wrestler is from Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas, Montana, each wrestler has a unique skill set and evaluating those skills set and comparing them to what it takes to be the best is part of dissecting each recruit.
 
Obviously, experience on the national circuit and competing and beating the nation's best makes identification of the top recruits easier, but identifying wrestlers with great potential and innate desire to compete and win is really a deeper level of recruiting."
 
 
"I believe CA produces some of the best talent in the country bc of only one division. I wish more states would do it.
 
In the dual competition i believe they should offer 2 divisions bc there is a much different makeup of a dual team from a large school vs a small school."
 
 
"I think all states should be 1 division.  I do not believe a tournament defines a wrestler.  There are so many national level events now days, that we spend a large portion of our time focused on those.  The State tourney is a good indicator, but at the end of the day as a coach you research your recruits and you want them for several reasons.  Not because it says state champ next to their name." 
 
 
"As a college coach, I put much greater value on a California State placer.  One state champ helps college coaches evaluate talent to a much greater extent than states that have multiple state champions.  I think most college coaches prefer recruiting state tournaments where there truly is a state champion and not multiple state champions."
 
 
"We are limited on recruiting budget and scholarship so most of our recruiting is in PA. We can’t afford to fly anyone in so it is hard to recruit kids from too far away. Coaches are looking for kids that fit their program and have a passion for the sport. Placement at HS States is not the end all in most cases. We recruit kids that we get to know or that we think will fit well with our program based on character, work ethic and potential. I’m would love to get some CA kids on the team, it just doesn’t usually work."
 
 
"I look for
1.       Performance
2.       Work Ethic
3.       Grades
4.       Character
5.       Family"
 
 
"I recruit kids on how good I believe they will be in college and that is it !!"
 
 
"In terms of recruiting I don't think it's an issue.  We find the better kids by calling and not just watching matches or results.  I will say that I am a huge fan of divisions in terms of growth.  High School wrestling was not created to determine the king of the jungle but rather to provide opportunity.  If divisions provide more opportunity for a greater number of kids participate in wrestling then it's a no brainer. 
 
By the way….we are looking at some California kids right now that didn't win it.  We look for certain types of kids and not just those that one a state championship."
 
 
"California state championships defiantly is held in higher regard than those other states you mentioned. That being said; There are over 600 state champions and a lot more state place winner. We base scholarship monies and placement  on national results; Jr nationals to be specific and other national events."
 
 
"A "3rd placer in Cali" to me is probably one of the best wrestlers in the country.  I don't automatically consider the State Champion to be the best wrestler in the weight class until I see who he beat and how the 3rd place guy lost.  I actually think it is easier sometimes to win a state title than to take 3rd.  3rd place shows resilience after adversity, a characteristic that is an unteachable trait.  We judge our prospects on talent more so than state placing.  We evaluate how many unteachable traits they possess rather than trophies.  The teaching of wrestling is the easy part...we seek wrestlers who are fast, strong and athletic."
 
 
"we look more at quality wins over nationally known wrestlers. There are some state champs that might not place in another state, so we do not look solely at being a state champ vs. state placer. We definitely take into account that CA is one of the toughest states in the country."
 
 
"I know how tough it is to win CA State let alone place.  I along with a lot of other coaches around the country understand that even kids that place in California are very tough and worthy of a scholarship.  With that said I think California and it's wrestlers would benefit from having two state tournaments like Pennsylvania, Ohio and New York.  I definitely think there are kids being passed up on for college wrestling opportunities because they don't place at CA State or don't make the finals.  Two divisions would give these kids a better chance to be seen by college recruiters."
Edited by Aztec

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Having a single champ is hurting CA. Foley Mailbag on I intermat does a good job addressing this. I would bet the same is true in NJ. Moving to 2 classes has clearly benefitted NY in getting more exposure and more guys to college level.

what good is getting kids to the college level for the individual? how does that help the level of competition and the development of the wrestler?

Edited by gutfirst

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