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rlw028

Shoe on other foot...

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Question for everyone related to CSU situation...

 

What would we think, if Joe Heskett became AD at a school like say, Kansas. He decides to cut a mens sport, that hasn't had a lot of success, in favor of wrestling.

 

Would we complain about how "wrong" that is, or that he has an agenda?

Edited by rlw028

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I'll worry about that when it happens. Seems about as likely as the Duchess of Cambridge dumping William for you or me.

 

I do remember when BYU told AD Fehlberg that he had to tell Mark Shultz his program would go away. I know of 5 schools where wrestling was replaced by a larger, ore expensive men's squad. LaSalle, LebanonValley, Oregon, BU, CSU (Football, Ice Hockey, Baseball, Lax,Lax). We know the first two were disasters, the third andfourth may be disasters, although unlimited New Balance + Nike money may hide the fact.

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rlw, Kansas is a bad example, as there's actually some decent HS wrestling there. I've suggested using Ole Miss and baseball in that regard...remember, Mississippi does not sanction HS wrestling.

 

SHP, I was trying to pick a school which (in my mind) could have a realistic program (due to the fact that they have good wrestling), but I see your counter.

 

At any rate, is Ole Miss baseball a fair argument? SEC is one of the prominent baseball conferences, no? Although I have no clue how successful or unsuccessful Ole Miss is in that regard.

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rlw, probably not a fair argument, in terms of success, you're right. The SEC is probably the strongest baseball conference in the country, and although Ole Miss is having a relative down year within that conference, they still are fairly decent historically (including, last year, making the College World Series, their first appearance there since 1972). Perhaps Southern Miss would have been a better example, although they've had some success, including a 2009 upset College World Series appearance, they haven't been to the NCAA Tournament (even regionals) since 2011.

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I'm not a fan of dropping any program unless it was only under somewhat extreme circumstances warrant it. In the CSU case I don't see anything close to that happening. In the original senerio I'd be happy to see another DI wrestling program added, but would like the way it would have occured if it was at the expense of another viable sport at the university.

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Alabama Huntsville ice hockey. They have, on their roster 2 Ala, 1 Ga, 1 Ca The rest, very North Canada, Europe. I suspect they could get a half dozen plus, Al, Ga, Tenn, Fl on a wrestling roster, still that campus just got raped by the bosses in Tuscaloosa (Football?)

 

I am a fan of the Sacred Heart model. 33 sports, a couple good (football lately), a couple OK, mostly weak. But you aren't going to lose students because their sport is not present

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So now we see that wrestling can get cut and replaced with a different men's sport. Maybe its time to stop blaming Title 9 for all our woes, and consider what's wrong with the sport and with the sport's reputation.  

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Pretty short list, especially when you consider that Bowlsby, Baumgartner, and Noel are the only ones that have headed up athletic departments.

Do you think that list is complete??????? I came up with 5 in two minutes.

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Thanks for the correction SHP. Considering the loss of wrestling really started in Tuscaloosa, I am willing to blame them for everything

 

Although of course Tuscaloosa lacks an ice hockey team --they only have 8 male sports teams

Edited by RichB

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I'm a wrestling homer but I am not in favor of any sport being dropped to add another sport. 

The only time that should even be considered is if the sport on the chopping block simply cannot field a competitive team (and that issue should be addressed before cutting the sport), massive NCAA infractions similar to what happened decades ago with SMU football.  Or if the NCAA spots sponsoring the sport.

 

Imo, a state university's athletic department should offer sports that reflect high school participation in their state and for large state systems - like California's UC and CSU systems - also reflect regional participation. 

For example it is terrible that San Diego State University does not sponsor men's swimming/diving or water polo.  Yet they have both for women.  SDSU's athletic department in general is terrible for men - only 6 men's sports and 13 women's sports.  And there have been talks about adding another women's sports. 

Through talking to others in the area, I have been convinced the only reason they still have a baseball team is because Tony Gwynn existed; if he hadn't been such a wonderful guy that team would have also been cut.  And that they need to field 6 men's teams, given they already have the main two small roster sports - golf & tennis, they don't have many options.

Come on, they don't even have a men's cross country team.  Yeah, I know the adage about having a x-country team and no men's track team but cross country is as cheap as you can get sport and they already have a bunch of students that are running all over the place - might as well hand them a SDSU jersey and cramp them into a bus for a few races. 

Also note in the early 2000s there was talk of SDSU dropping football.  At the time they spent about 30k/year for hotel rooms for home games...SDSU never has a home game before 2/3pm, so it wasn't like they needed to get their team together for a 9/10am kickoff.  Meanwhile the entire operating budgets for other sports were in the mid $30ks.  Even baseball had a string budget.

And the football team was spending $6800/yr on helmet decals.  haha. 

And then of course the game banquets for the football team; I had a relative playing baseball there, comment from him, "We're eating gas station burritos and those fukos (football team) are getting ribeyes at the Town & Country (that was a hotel I guess they frequently stayed at).  I used to give him $20-40 for a few road trips - that was probably a ncaa violation that would kill the team nowadays.

And the time they had to buy football pads for a midget coming out for the team.  A midget.

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So now we see that wrestling can get cut and replaced with a different men's sport. Maybe its time to stop blaming Title 9 for all our woes, and consider what's wrong with the sport and with the sport's reputation.  

If u have to eliminate a mens sport to add a mens sport, then it means they are worried about complying with title 9.  Otherwise theyd have to add a woman's sport to add a mens sport

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If u have to eliminate a mens sport to add a mens sport, then it means they are worried about complying with title 9.  Otherwise theyd have to add a woman's sport to add a mens sport

 

But they didn't have to cut wrestling. They chose to. That's the issue. 

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Do you think that list is complete??????? I came up with 5 in two minutes.

Of course the list is not complete.

 

I would like to know if Cornell is the only D1 institution in the country with an AD who is a former wrestler.

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Question for everyone related to CSU situation...

 

What would we think, if Joe Heskett became AD at a school like say, Kansas. He decides to cut a mens sport, that hasn't had a lot of success, in favor of wrestling.

 

Would we complain about how "wrong" that is, or that he has an agenda?

Bad example with Cleveland state.  It's a wrestling city.  Youngest NCAA Champ--Pat Milkovich, Maple Hts.  Lee Kemp, 3xWorld Champ, Olympian, 3xNCAA Champ from Chardon.  Kyle Dake, 4 timer--not from Cleveland....but his Dad was a state champ at Westlake.   Only 4 Time USA Wrestling Juniors Champ, Alan Fried, University Heights.  Arguably the finest high school wrestling program over the last half century--Lakewood St Edward. Drew Pariano, Jim Heffernan and Joe McFarland--all leading Big Ten programs--from Cleveland.  Where did Logan Stieber train for much of his youth...with The Burnett clan in Elyria, Ohio.  How many championships has South Euclid based Notre Dame College won? 

Should I mention Lakewood Steve's post about how a team of Cleveland area wrestlers scored more points at the NCAA tourney than Iowa. 

 

I could go on for a long time.

 

The Greater Cleveland area has always had a huge impact on our sport.  And Cleveland State is supposed to wrestle because the school represents the city.  

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RichB, as of right now, Alabama-Huntsville is the only school south of the Mason-Dixon line to sponsor the sport. (Arizona State is adding the sport in a couple of years to "rectify" that.)

RichB, as of right now, Alabama-Huntsville is the only school south of the Mason-Dixon line to sponsor the sport. (Arizona State is adding the sport in a couple of years to "rectify" that.)

Actually, Air force Academy and Colorado College are south of the Mason Dixon line - it runs right thru Denver. :-)

 

You know something that sucks. The LA times, over Christmas, and I am sure all winter, every few days publishes the College Hockey Rankings, even though the present closest teams are the aforementioned ones in Colorado, but never a word about College wrestling despite 3 teams in the state

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I can think of 20 additional Division 1 wrestling programs that could easily be dropped in the next 5 years.  If your average attendance is less than 100 per dual, then nobody cares.

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