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dhun

Who had a better career Dake or Stieber?

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I don't mean won more matches, I mean won more hardware/accolades.   

 

National team titles 1-0

 

Conference titles 4-3

 

Most dominant wrestler award 1-0

 

and if' we're including high school and international, it just is not even close.  Steiber easily has many more accomplishments than Dake.   

 

 

Well if we are going there....

 

Taylor

 

4 NCAA Team Titles

 

4 BIG Titles

 

4 BIG Team Titles

 

2 NCAA Titles

 

2 Hodge Trophys

 

2 Gorriaran Awards

 

and an attractive girl friend to boot...

Edited by vsnej

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I can't argue your opinion on the argument, but I will argue that Logan should not have taken the mat that day in Vegas and should have redshirted before hand.  6 months later he would place second at Junior worlds, narrowly losing to Olympic gold medalist who beat the Khudokov, considered the best wrestler in the world at any weight at the time. So Logan was not far off from the best in the world 6 months after that injury.  Something tells me he was sick, had a bad weight cut or was really hurt.

 

Again the one thing in Logan's favor over the other 4 timers is that he won 4 big tens. Dake lost in the damn Ivy league tourney. That is a pretty big deduction in this argument.  OSU needs every win to compete and place at the Big Tens as a team

 

Plus Logan has a team championship. The first in our school's history.  And Logan looked to score and dominate more. He pinned more guys and was more dominant. He did lose a few mid-season matches. Big deal: mid season is to gauge yourself to peak for the end. OSU in all sports has this moto.  Get to the playoffs, then win.

 

I think you're trying to get a little too much out of Stieber's LOSS to Asgarov. Also remember, in that same time period (a few months earlier), Stieber lost decisively to Cody Brewer at the 2011 Junior nationals. Rather than saying that Stieber was close to the best in the world, you could say that he was not much better or behind the level of a non D1 AA. That would seem to be consistent with the 3 other losses that he had that year.

 

I also disagree that Stieber was "more dominant". He lost more than Dake. Dominance begins with record. The Ivys or Big 10s aren't the national tournament. I don't think we should dismiss Stieber's losses to Retherford when he was nearly 4 1/2 years older either. He is the only 4 timer to lose as an upperclassmen. He narrowly escaped defeat against Dardanes this year! Drake was more dominant imo.

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The only one of these that actually holds any merit is the conference titles. They both won the Hodge their sr year, and winning a team title doesnt necessarily mean he had a better individual career

 

 

It means what ever it mean sot you.   This is purely opinion based on accomplishment.   

 

Dake will never enjoy winning a team title.  He will never know what that feels like.   Steiber led his team to the team title and he absolutely puts that on his resume.   Team champs, carried on his back means something to me, so when evaluating different accomplishments towards determining who had the better career, I count it.  Same with most dominant award.

 

We all have our own way of viewing things.  The 4 weight classes means nothing to me.  It's not like it is any more difficult to win it in 4 classes than 3 or 2 or 1.   You have to win the national title at the weight you are at.  Dake did that.  So did Steiber.   I see no significance in that while others view it as something huge.   I also see no difference in greater career based on if you finished up by 22 years of age or 50 years of age.  The career is still the same no matter the age.   And finally, the no redshirt argument.   I would actually lean toward the longer career as being better because you got to be in the wrestling scene longer.   I would rather have my team win 5 championships over 10 years than 5 in 5 years.   Same amount of hardware, but the longer run I'll take any time.   

 

Again just personal preferences.   

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Well if we are going there....

 

Taylor

 

4 NCAA Team Titles

 

4 BIG Titles

 

4 BIG Team Titles

 

2 NCAA Titles

 

2 Hodge Trophys

 

2 Gorriaran Awards

 

and an attractive girl friend to boot...

 

 

 

Yes, great example.  

 

You can toss out the hodge award, that means little to nothing other than a popularity contest, and if Taylor was even on NCAA titles won as opposed to down by 2, I would have Taylor over Steiber.   

 

Ask yourself which career would you want, one with 4 titles and 3 conference titles or one with 4 titles, 4 conference titles and a team championship to boot?  For me its easily Steiber over Dake.   

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Arguments for Dake:

1. No Redshirt

2. Was Younger

3. Bumped up and Beat the Hodge Winner Senior Year. When I heard he made that decision, I was like wow, this kid is amazing and has some guts.

 

Arguments for Stieber

1. Tougher Schedule

2. Greater margin of victory

3. One less loss

 

Man, I wouldn't even mind calling it a tie.

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John Smith had the best career and lost at the NCAAs as a freshman despite being ranked 3rd. He lost to Jim Jordan and as a junior had a loss to Gil Sanchez and won "only" two NCAA titles. These subjective arguments are silly.

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Stieber has two more losses than Dake. The no redshirt, and better record is a slam dunk argument for Dake imo. And the fact that Stieber was losing to true freshman as a Rs Jr. (Rs.Sr aged) is a big minus against him. As well as the fact that Stieber was nearly 3 years older than Dake when they both had their last collegiate loss.

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Keep in mind it was an overtime loss. He was by no means dominated. And if I remember correctly, the win against Stieber was a bit flukey and easily avenged twice.

 

I didn't say he was dominated, although I do remember Stieber tired and beaten, with his head on the mat, after Retherford beat him. Imagine a HS senior beating a Jr. Kyle Dake. That would be the rough equivalent of the Retherford/Stieber situation.

 

I don't believe that Stieber's loss to Retherford deserves to be called "flukey" either.

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Redshirt losses dont count on your record...just ask Cael

Stieber wasn't redshirting at the time of those losses. Stieber's losses are the same as Jordan Burroughs' loss in his first junior year before he took the injury redshirt.

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Stieber wasn't redshirting at the time of those losses. Stieber's losses are the same as Jordan Burroughs' loss in his first junior year before he took the injury redshirt.

So

http://thelantern.com/2015/04/logan-stieber-sets-sights-on-2016-olympics/

http://thelantern.com/2015/03/logan-stieber-takes-home-the-hodge-trophy-as-best-collegiate-wrestler/

http://www.norwalkreflector.com/article/6561681

Are all wrong (just a few) and should be getting their info from you then?

 

STIEBER YEAR-BY-YEAR RECORDS/STATS

2011-12 (133 lbs.): 33-2 (16 falls, two tech falls, five major decisions)

2012-13 (133 lbs.): 27-0 (14 falls, seven technical falls, two major decisions)

2013-14 (141 lbs.): 30-1 (10 falls, 11 technical falls, seven major decisions)

2014-15 (141 lbs.): 29-0 (10 falls, eight tech falls, four major decisions)

TOTAL: 119-3 (50 falls, 28 technical falls, 18 major decisions)

Edited by littlethadd

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So

http://thelantern.com/2015/04/logan-stieber-sets-sights-on-2016-olympics/

http://thelantern.com/2015/03/logan-stieber-takes-home-the-hodge-trophy-as-best-collegiate-wrestler/

http://www.norwalkreflector.com/article/6561681

http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/033015aaa.html

Are all wrong (just a few) and should be getting their info from you then?

 

STIEBER YEAR-BY-YEAR RECORDS/STATS

2011-12 (133 lbs.): 33-2 (16 falls, two tech falls, five major decisions)

2012-13 (133 lbs.): 27-0 (14 falls, seven technical falls, two major decisions)

2013-14 (141 lbs.): 30-1 (10 falls, 11 technical falls, seven major decisions)

2014-15 (141 lbs.): 29-0 (10 falls, eight tech falls, four major decisions)

TOTAL: 119-3 (50 falls, 28 technical falls, 18 major decisions)

 

Yes, they are all wrong. Ohio State even used to record Stieber's true freshman losses, for some reason they stopped. It's possible one site got the incorrect numbers and another site copied it and so on.

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Yes, they are all wrong. Ohio State even used to record Stieber's true freshman losses, for some reason they stopped. It's possible one site got the incorrect numbers and another site copied it and so on.

Sorry Im going with the B1G and the NCAA over you

 

http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/033015aaa.html

http://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2015-03-22/history-confirmed

Edited by littlethadd

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Considering they are he same age, and the fact that Dake split matches with Reese Humphrey his freshman year, and the fact that Reese and Logan go at it now, we could have had our answer had Dake not kept gaining weight.  Logan and Dake would be a very close match.   Probably be whoever got a turn. Dake has great defense, Logan great forward offense.  Both are mental studs of the highest order.  

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Littlethadd,

 

Look at this link. I'm not entirely sure why they stopped counting Stieber's record correctly. I'm guessing because it's less confusing to see a 4 year record that doesn't have two freshman years on it. Two years in the same year doesn't make sense to a lot of people. As a matter of fact, I think Stieber's and Burroughs' record are the two most "confusing" records in recent times.

 

 

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-wrestl/mtt/logan_stieber_753012.html

Edited by oldsuper

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Fishhook,

 

I think Dake and Stieber would be an interesting match, but I'm talking true freshman Dake vs. senior Stieber. I think that would be an exciting match for many people. I think Dake's length and athleticism would give Stieber serious trouble.

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Lostnumber,

 

Although I think you have the correct answer to the thread starter's question, I think you went way too far. Yes, Dake's wins over Taylor were very good for his resume. With that said, Taylor isn't the discussion of "best ever". Not by a long shot. Doesn't have the right amount of national titles, and doesn't have the right record. Doesn't have those things because he didn't have enough skill. Taylor is several tiers down from a wrestler like Kyle Dake.

 

Even the misguided, ridiculous "best two timer ever" bandwagon has died down for Taylor. To the wrestling community's credit, that was nipped in the bud almost immediately.

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So

http://thelantern.com/2015/04/logan-stieber-sets-sights-on-2016-olympics/

http://thelantern.com/2015/03/logan-stieber-takes-home-the-hodge-trophy-as-best-collegiate-wrestler/

http://www.norwalkreflector.com/article/6561681

Are all wrong (just a few) and should be getting their info from you then?

 

STIEBER YEAR-BY-YEAR RECORDS/STATS

2011-12 (133 lbs.): 33-2 (16 falls, two tech falls, five major decisions)

2012-13 (133 lbs.): 27-0 (14 falls, seven technical falls, two major decisions)

2013-14 (141 lbs.): 30-1 (10 falls, 11 technical falls, seven major decisions)

2014-15 (141 lbs.): 29-0 (10 falls, eight tech falls, four major decisions)

TOTAL: 119-3 (50 falls, 28 technical falls, 18 major decisions)

It is not a matter of whether he was granted a (medical) redshirt. It is a matter of whether he wrestled as an "attached" athlete or not. Every bout Stieber wrestled in his true Frosh year was as an attached athlete - all the bouts took place in either a dual or the CKLV, which is not an open tourney.

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Even the misguided, ridiculous "best two timer ever" bandwagon has died down for Taylor. To the wrestling community's credit, that was nipped in the bud almost immediately.

Whats annoying is that, generally, the wresltling community will credit DT as being the best PSU wrestler ever. When, obviously, that title belongs to Ruth.

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Whats annoying is that, generally, the wresltling community will credit DT as being the best PSU wrestler ever. When, obviously, that title belongs to Ruth.

 

No, the thread would turn into a definition of "best," then move on to a discussion of their HS accomplishments, their future accomplishments and their extra-curricular activities. 

Edited by headshuck

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