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D1 Women's Wrestling

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the ivy league and the ridiculously endowed should lead the charge sponsor female wrestling. maybe they need to wait until there is more participation in high school and youth levels but i think both should be encouraged simultaneously.

 

and i care none at all for the attendance numbers or the watchability of women's wrestling. women should be encouraged to wrestle because the benefits of sports apply to both sexes, and wrestling is one of the best sports there is. college sports do not exist to put butts in seats. it is a positive externality of developmental athletics, not the raison d'etre. 

Edited by Jaroslav Hasek

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First off, we all win when wrestling is more mainstream and not seen as unusual to the common person. MMA has exploded over the past 15 years and is now mainstream and accepted by those who used to compare it to dog fighting. We even have women MMA stars who are mainstream, feminine and ass kickers. 

 

We  need to embrace change and growth and continue to evolve

 

We need women's programs in state universities in the states where girls high school wrestling is recognized as a sport. The state university is set up to serve the needs of the state. The same way that it is ridiculous that in states where boys wrestling is sponsored on the high school level and then none of the state univ sponsor a men's college program.

 

 If the college women's head wrestling coaches are wise they will be leading the fight to get their state high school associations to sponsor girls high school wrestling and increase their local pool of talent for recruitment. King College, a private school in Virginia won the women's national championship this year. Virginia does not sponsor girls high school wrestling. 

 

*On another note I just looked into women's ice hockey and found out the NCAA sponsors women's varsity ice hockey. I HAD NO IDEA. I knew that the Big ten did but not NCAA. They have a big school Div. I and small school D III championships.  The Big Ten and the Ivy league tend to be the more powerful teams.How many states other than Minnesota sponsor girls high school ice hockey?

Edited by cradlewiz

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There are several colleges and universities that currently offer women's wrestling. I believe that number is 21 currently with I think two to three more to add women's wrestling next season.

These teams hold a National Tournament every year and this year's event had over 250 participants. I have provided a link to trackwrestling if you would like to see the results.

 

http://s400.trackwrestling.com/tw/opentournaments/MainFrame.jsp?newSession=false&sport=wrestling&TIM=1429908309258&pageName=&ie=false&frameSize=815

 

1.         King University

2.         Campbellsville University

3.         Oklahoma City University

4.         Simon Fraser University (Canada)

5.         Lindenwood University St. Charles

6.         Mckendree University           

7.         Wayland Baptist University

8.         University of The Cumberlands

9.         Jamestown University

10.       Missouri Baptist University

11.       Missouri Valley College

12.       Menlo College

13.       Ottawa University

14.       Southwestern Oregon

15.       Lyon College

16.       Waldorf College

17.       Lindenwood University Belleville Il

18.       Life University

19.       Pacific University

20.       Warner Pacific College          

21.       Midland University

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*On another note I just looked into women's ice hockey and found out the NCAA sponsors women's varsity ice hockey. I HAD NO IDEA. I knew that the Big ten did but not NCAA. They have a big school Div. I and small school D III championships.  The Big Ten and the Ivy league tend to be the more powerful teams.How many states other than Minnesota sponsor girls high school ice hockey?

I believe the following states associations sanction high school girls ice hockey: Maine, Massachusetts, and Minnesota.

 

With it being played in the following states, though they don't have enough teams to sanction it: Alaska, California, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, Vermont, and Wisconsin.

 

I do know, that some schools use ice hockey to attract Canadian students. You see a lot of the ice hockey schools along the Canadian boarder and they often attract the interest of general students from up north as well as ice hockey players.

 

Here are some rosters from Division-I women's team rosters:

 

http://clarksonathletics.com/roster.aspx?path=whock

http://www.saintsathletics.com/roster.aspx?path=whockey

http://gocolgateraiders.com/roster.aspx?path=whock

http://www.bsubeavers.com/whockey/roster/

http://uvmathletics.com/roster.aspx?path=whockey

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Perhaps I was a little hasty in my reply to RealAmericanHero. I didn't grasp his context, so I apologize. 

 

The one thing we need to remember is women's wrestling is freestyle, so we typically have higher scoring, higher risk attacks. Some might not be as clean, but I've covered women's wrestling for a very long time and one thing I've rarely seen is stalling. Anyone remember the Chun-Lampe series in Iowa City? Did you ever think you'd have that many wrestling fans oohing and ahhing over women's wrestling? 

 

So NJWC, are you saying women's wrestling isn't necessary? I don't want to put words in your mouth with some conjecture. Unlike basketball fans, we don't have the luxury of being men's basketball fans and women's basketball fans -- we have to be wrestling fans. It's imperative to our growth and survival. 

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. Unlike basketball fans, we don't have the luxury of being men's basketball fans and women's basketball fans -- we have to be wrestling fans. It's imperative to our growth and survival. 

 

If JB is right and the survial of this sport is dependent on women's wrestling(and he may very well be right), the sport is doomed.

 

We can't even get men's wrestling to flourish let alone women's.

 

I am far more into wrestling than 95% of the people I associate with.  I try to promote the sport and bring more peope into the fold.  And I have has some success in this regard.  But when women's wreatling comes on, any interest they have immediately vanishes.  And I feel the same way.  I simply have no interest in the women's wrestling at all.

 

And I am not putting down those of you who enjoy it.  If you like it, good for you.  But personally, I can't stand it.  And I should not be chastised for it any more than you should be for enjoying it....

 

But if the survival of the sport truly does depend on women's wrestling, I have little hope that it will survive.  Hopefully JB is wrong, but I suspect he is right. 

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What's amusing is I didn't say the survival of the sport was dependent on women's wrestling, I said it was wrestling as a whole.

 

Semantics.  You are saying wrestling as whole, but women's wrestling is part of "wrestling as whole".

 

If the survival of men's freestyle and NCAA folkstyle is at all dependent on the success of Greco or Women's wrestling, the sport as a whole is in trouble, IMO.  It's clear what is popular (at least a little popular) and what isn't.

 

Despite my personal lack of interest, I would love for Greco and Women's wrestling to soar in popularity.  But it wouldn't change my disinterest.  And let's be honest with ourselves, neither are ever going to be popular in the US.

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so all of these schools who have women's wrestling compete in Freestyle? Before reading Jason's post, i was thinking to myself what sense would it make for these women to wrestle folk. Sooner or later, we'll start changing some folk rules to better incorporate FS, we must do it.


 


1.         King University


2.         Campbellsville University


3.         Oklahoma City University


4.         Simon Fraser University (Canada)


5.         Lindenwood University St. Charles


6.         Mckendree University           


7.         Wayland Baptist University


8.         University of The Cumberlands


9.         Jamestown University


10.       Missouri Baptist University


11.       Missouri Valley College


12.       Menlo College


13.       Ottawa University


14.       Southwestern Oregon


15.       Lyon College


16.       Waldorf College


17.       Lindenwood University Belleville Il


18.       Life University


19.       Pacific University


20.       Warner Pacific College          


21.       Midland University


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Perhaps I was a little hasty in my reply to RealAmericanHero. I didn't grasp his context, so I apologize. 

 

The one thing we need to remember is women's wrestling is freestyle, so we typically have higher scoring, higher risk attacks. Some might not be as clean, but I've covered women's wrestling for a very long time and one thing I've rarely seen is stalling. Anyone remember the Chun-Lampe series in Iowa City? Did you ever think you'd have that many wrestling fans oohing and ahhing over women's wrestling? 

 

So NJWC, are you saying women's wrestling isn't necessary? I don't want to put words in your mouth with some conjecture. Unlike basketball fans, we don't have the luxury of being men's basketball fans and women's basketball fans -- we have to be wrestling fans. It's imperative to our growth and survival. 

My comment was more directed toward your statement that all wrestling is watchable, and if you don't like women's wrestling, that's on you.

That's a pretty ignorant statement, as you're commenting on something very subjective.  I was a D1 wrestler, have coached at all levels from youth through college, and love the sport.

That said, watching a day of average youth wrestling can be tedious.  Watching the vast majority of women's wrestling leaves much to be desired.  That's not a knock on the effort of those involved, their passion for the sport, etc.  It's more a comment on the overall quality of the sport at that level. 

Do I think that women's wrestling is "necessary"?  Not really, as I feel we are fans of a sport that is, and always will be, something of a fringe sport. Someone made the comment that by not having women's wrestling, we are missing out on over half of the population.  Please.  The vast, vast, vast majority of women would never consider participation in this sport, and view those that would participate as a bit "off". Should women have the opportunity to compete?  Sure, but it is unfortunate that the well being of men's wrestling is tied in some way to this greatly inferior product.

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Women's wrestling is not going to save college wrestling regardless of the politically correct non-sense running through society. Only money and a dedicated fan-base will save a sport.

 

That having been said I have no problem with Women's wrestling becoming an NCAA sponsored sport.

 

As far as watchability goes it is like any other sport, matchups, talent, production, etc. play a huge part in it. Olympic Women's curling attracts a lot of male viewers for some strange reason and yet somehow I simply can't watch the men at all. I'm can't quite put my finger on the reason why there is a difference but this is a case where the women are more watchable than the men.    

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Olympic Women's curling attracts a lot of male viewers for some strange reason and yet somehow I simply can't watch the men at all. I'm can't quite put my finger on the reason why there is a difference but this is a case where the women are more watchable than the men.    

 

ahem...google women's curling images and you'll find your answer...

or better yet

http://oglympics.com/2010/02/16/women-of-curling-fire-on-ice/

Edited by gromit

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I might have seen something similar.

 

I'm not knocking the lady wrestlers but somehow there is a difference between the women curlers in their skin-tight spandex pants and form fitting jackets and sweaty messy haired women with beat-up faces and cauliflower ear.  

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My comment was more directed toward your statement that all wrestling is watchable, and if you don't like women's wrestling, that's on you.

That's a pretty ignorant statement, as you're commenting on something very subjective.  I was a D1 wrestler, have coached at all levels from youth through college, and love the sport.

That said, watching a day of average youth wrestling can be tedious.  Watching the vast majority of women's wrestling leaves much to be desired.  That's not a knock on the effort of those involved, their passion for the sport, etc.  It's more a comment on the overall quality of the sport at that level. 

Do I think that women's wrestling is "necessary"?  Not really, as I feel we are fans of a sport that is, and always will be, something of a fringe sport. Someone made the comment that by not having women's wrestling, we are missing out on over half of the population.  Please.  The vast, vast, vast majority of women would never consider participation in this sport, and view those that would participate as a bit "off". Should women have the opportunity to compete?  Sure, but it is unfortunate that the well being of men's wrestling is tied in some way to this greatly inferior product.

NJWC I was a D1 wrestler and a coach too. I've also coached both boys and girls teams. What makes you think that girls would not consider the sport? Have you ever coached anywhere with girls hs wrestling teams? In states with only boys hs wrestling the girls are looked at as being "a bit off" for being the only girl on a boys team wrestling against boys. Why do you think that women's wrestling is an inferior product to mens wrestling? Could it have something to do with them not being allowed to train or compete in organized competition until the past 20 or so years, and that most don't start wrestling until high school?

Edited by cradlewiz

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Women's wrestling at the high school and college level continues to grow.  Eventually I think it will grow to the division 1 level, but focusing time and resources to push it to the division 1 level would be unwise.  The continue promotion and growth of women's wrestling as a whole will benefit men's wrestling and could potentially protect future men's programs from being cut due to title 9 compliance issues.  By sharing resources, men's and women's programs tie their fate to each other.  Cutting men's wrestling no longer makes as much sense.

 

I found women's wrestling enjoyable to watch, but agree that at some weights the styles in general are a bit more boring than others. I feel the same about men's wrestling as well though.  Heavyweight 197 and even 184 can be a bit boring (174 has had its moments in recent years).  As a lightweight competitor my whole career, I also favor the lighter weight classes of both styles.

 

I however am biased.  In my high school career, I competed on teams with 8 female wrestlers (4 at one high school, 4 at another my senior year). One of them wrestled in college, became my wife and has blessed me with three boys.

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If you look at the history of women's involvement in male activity, they were underestimated for their intelligence, leadership or athletic ability. They were denied the vote. They were denied membership in the military. They were denied working in all kinds of skilled jobs that were meant for men.

OK, they're not as quick, agile, knowledgeable and strong as men on the mat, but compared to the long history of men's wrestling they're just getting started; and --with a few extreme exceptions-- they're not going to take on the men. They just want to compete where they can and cooperate where they can. It's about inclusion. I don't think it can be stopped. Like it or not, it's all just one more part of our evolution as a species.

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NJWC I was a D1 wrestler and a coach too. I've also coached both boys and girls teams. What makes you think that girls would not consider the sport? Have you ever coached anywhere with girls hs wrestling teams? In states with only boys hs wrestling the girls are looked at as being "a bit off" for being the only girl on a boys team wrestling against boys. Why do you think that women's wrestling is an inferior product to mens wrestling? Could it have something to do with them not being allowed to train or compete in organized competition until the past 20 or so years, and that most don't start wrestling until high school?

I've actually coached a few girls, and they all had emotional issues.  I'm not saying all females involved in the sport are "off", I'm saying it's not common for females to have the inherent aggression and desire for physicality that the sport demands.

There are differences between the sexes, regardless of how hard some would want to push a "unisex" outlook on things.

Very few participants, far less athleticism, and far poorer technique makes it a sport that many would rather not watch.

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less athleticism, and far poorer technique

 

If women take the same path as the guys, it may only be a matter of time before they hit the weights and start bulking up on high protein and testosterone like the female weight lifters who've become extremely masculine. Then what?

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If women take the same path as the guys, it may only be a matter of time before they hit the weights and start bulking up on high protein and testosterone like the female weight lifters who've become extremely masculine. Then what?

You don't think women already hit the weights?  The end result is still going to be a far inferior product, with less athleticism and poorer technique. 

The WNBA can continue to trot out gawky 6'8 females that can "kinda" dunk, but no matter what they do, the product will remain vastly inferior (heck, inferior to HS boys' athletics).

I know there is the PC crew that so desperately wants to believe there is no inequality/differences between the sexes...you're wrong.

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You don't think women already hit the weights?  The end result is still going to be a far inferior product, with less athleticism and poorer technique. 

The WNBA can continue to trot out gawky 6'8 females that can "kinda" dunk, but no matter what they do, the product will remain vastly inferior (heck, inferior to HS boys' athletics).

I know there is the PC crew that so desperately wants to believe there is no inequality/differences between the sexes...you're wrong.

Interestingly, there are many people that prefer the women's game.

 

It is important to note that in basketball the men and women play two very distinctly different games. The women play below the rim and a more traditional brand of basketball more consistent with that played by men in the 60s and 70s when dunking was illegal. There are many fans of that game.

 

Women's basketball draws well. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketball_RB/reports/Attend/14att.pdf

 

In many sports the play of women is very much respected and enjoyed by fans.

 

It is likely the women's technique is of a lower quality than the men but that doesn't mean it will remain that way. Women's wrestling is still relatively young. The technique improves as the pool of athletes and coaches improves. If you look at women's soccer in the US there is no doubt they place of the game is slower than the men but they play tactically sound possession that rivals the best teams in the world including the men. I have found many fans prefer the women's game because it is easier to follow and see develop for most fans who haven't played at a high level themselves.

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Interestingly, there are many people that prefer the women's game.

 

It is important to note that in basketball the men and women play two very distinctly different games. The women play below the rim and a more traditional brand of basketball more consistent with that played by men in the 60s and 70s when dunking was illegal. There are many fans of that game.

 

Women's basketball draws well. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_basketball_RB/reports/Attend/14att.pdf

 

In many sports the play of women is very much respected and enjoyed by fans.

 

It is likely the women's technique is of a lower quality than the men but that doesn't mean it will remain that way. Women's wrestling is still relatively young. The technique improves as the pool of athletes and coaches improves. If you look at women's soccer in the US there is no doubt they place of the game is slower than the men but they play tactically sound possession that rivals the best teams in the world including the men. I have found many fans prefer the women's game because it is easier to follow and see develop for most fans who haven't played at a high level themselves.

There are many people that prefer the women's game?  Can you provide, say, ten NCAA programs where the women outdraw the men?  

Does the top drawing WNBA squad outdraw the worst attended NBA franchise?  

There aren't "many" who prefer women's basketball, that's simply not true.  

Figure skating?  Sure.  Women's tennis?  Perhaps.  beyond that, I can't think of a single sport where it would be close from a spectator interest standpoint.

The quality of women's wrestling, if we want to be honest with ourselves, is below solid boys' HS wrestling.  It's pretty awful to watch.

Again, I realize my position isn't PC, and it's not meant to demean effort or passion on the part of the female competitors.  It's simply a statement to the quality of the product.

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'Figure skating? Sure. Women's tennis? Perhaps. beyond that, I can't think of a single sport where it would be close from a spectator interest standpoint.'

 

beach volleyball? or maybe that's just me.

 

oh and gymnastics, some of those SEC schools and I think it's Utah that draw big crowds, guessing more than most of the few remaining men's programs do.

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