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D1 Women's Wrestling

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There are many people that prefer the women's game?  Can you provide, say, ten NCAA programs where the women outdraw the men?  

Does the top drawing WNBA squad outdraw the worst attended NBA franchise?  

There aren't "many" who prefer women's basketball, that's simply not true.  

Figure skating?  Sure.  Women's tennis?  Perhaps.  beyond that, I can't think of a single sport where it would be close from a spectator interest standpoint.

The quality of women's wrestling, if we want to be honest with ourselves, is below solid boys' HS wrestling.  It's pretty awful to watch.

Again, I realize my position isn't PC, and it's not meant to demean effort or passion on the part of the female competitors.  It's simply a statement to the quality of the product.

There are people that do not attend men's games that attend women's games. It is not as if it is the same pool of people that are basketball fans and just go to games no matter who is playing.

 

This is the same way we can say that many people enjoy watching wrestling and even prefer it to college basketball. We wouldn't think it was a rationale reply for someone to counter with "Can you provide, say, ten NCAA programs where the wrestling outdraws men's basketball?" The one is not a condition required for the other.

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'Figure skating? Sure. Women's tennis? Perhaps. beyond that, I can't think of a single sport where it would be close from a spectator interest standpoint.'

 

beach volleyball? or maybe that's just me.

 

oh and gymnastics, some of those SEC schools and I think it's Utah that draw big crowds, guessing more than most of the few remaining men's programs do.

Good point about the beach volleyball, though the attention for female beach volleyball is impacted by the sex appeal of the athletes.  I know a few guys fairly high up at a sports agency that promotes the pro tour, they know what puts people in the seats.

 

 

There are people that do not attend men's games that attend women's games. It is not as if it is the same pool of people that are basketball fans and just go to games no matter who is playing.

 

This is the same way we can say that many people enjoy watching wrestling and even prefer it to college basketball. We wouldn't think it was a rationale reply for someone to counter with "Can you provide, say, ten NCAA programs where the wrestling outdraws men's basketball?" The one is not a condition required for the other.

I agree that there is a small niche market for women's hoops, namely lesbians, that will attend women's basketball over men's.

That said, when someone makes a statement that there are "many" people that prefer women's hoops to men's, what would a rational demonstration of that statement be if not a comparison between attendance and TV ratings comparing the two?

There are something like 350 D1 hoops programs in the country.  What would constitute "many people" preferring women's to men's?  At least 30% of these programs having women outdraw the men?  20%?  10%? 

 

The statement simply isn't true.  

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I agree that there is a small niche market for women's hoops, namely lesbians, that will attend women's basketball over men's.

That said, when someone makes a statement that there are "many" people that prefer women's hoops to men's, what would a rational demonstration of that statement be if not a comparison between attendance and TV ratings comparing the two?

There are something like 350 D1 hoops programs in the country.  What would constitute "many people" preferring women's to men's?  At least 30% of these programs having women outdraw the men?  20%?  10%? 

 

The statement simply isn't true.

Ha ha The things you are saying are on par with "I agree that there is a small niche market for college wrestling, namely meat heads that like to watch guys in tights touch each other." We all know that is a statement made by people that know nothing of the number of wrestling fans or their passion for the sport.

 

Just because you're not aware there is a community of fans doesn't mean they don't exist. The reason I noted the fact the women's game resembles the game from the 60s and 70s is because the women's game is very popular with retirement aged fans. Interestingly enough, that is also the demographic that is predominately attending the NCAA wrestling championships.

 

"Many" means a large number. It does not mean the majority or more than. It is an independent figure that doesn't need to be compared to another figure and it is also subjective.

 

I am not going to try to convince you of something you don't want to believe. But if you think women's basketball has no following then college wrestling is doomed considering women's basketball is much more popular (and profitable) than college wrestling with the women's national championship drawing over six times the number of TV viewers wrestling's national championship draws.

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Ha ha The things you are saying are on par with "I agree that there is a small niche market for college wrestling, namely meat heads that like to watch guys in tights touch each other." We all know that is a statement made by people that know nothing of the number of wrestling fans or their passion for the sport.

 

Just because you're not aware there is a community of fans doesn't mean they don't exist. The reason I noted the fact the women's game resembles the game from the 60s and 70s is because the women's game is very popular with retirement aged fans. Interestingly enough, that is also the demographic that is predominately attending the NCAA wrestling championships.

 

"Many" means a large number. It does not mean the majority or more than. It is an independent figure that doesn't need to be compared to another figure and it is also subjective.

 

I am not going to try to convince you of something you don't want to believe. But if you think women's basketball has no following then college wrestling is doomed considering women's basketball is much more popular (and profitable) than college wrestling with the women's national championship drawing over six times the number of TV viewers wrestling's national championship draws.

I realize that wrestling doesn't draw, but I'm not comparing men's wrestling to women's basketball.

You made the statement that "Many" people prefer women's hoops.  What constitutes "many"?  I realize it's subjective, but would many suggest a majority?  A very large minority?  We were comparing interest levels between men's and women's sports, and you stated "many" people prefer women.  

Can you quantify?  Or are you simply making a bold statement with no real truth/proof behind it?

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what difference does attendance make? its a good idea to sponsor women's sports, wrestling included. 

I don't disagree.  The problem I have is when the outcome is an adverse impact on men's sports in the name of political correctness.

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I realize that wrestling doesn't draw, but I'm not comparing men's wrestling to women's basketball.

You made the statement that "Many" people prefer women's hoops.  What constitutes "many"?  I realize it's subjective, but would many suggest a majority?  A very large minority?  We were comparing interest levels between men's and women's sports, and you stated "many" people prefer women.  

Can you quantify?  Or are you simply making a bold statement with no real truth/proof behind it?

Sure, we can quantify it. One metric is looking at ticket sales and attendance, which is what I posted. All of those people had other entertainment options but made the decision to attend a women's basketball games is significant. I would say that when 11,000 people turn down other entertainment options, not once, but 18 times during a season to attend a women's basketball game in Knoxville that they have shown they prefer the offering not only to other entertainment options but any other option for their use of time.

 

Of course, it is hard to isolate for the number of people that have the opportunity to watch men's basketball but make the decision to watch women's basketball instead. The ticket sales metrics don't really show that information since I wouldn't think too many schools or even cities have the conflicting options available at the same time that force people to decide.

 

For that we can look at television where there are a multitude of college basketball games available for consumption at any given time yet people still tune in to women's basketball making it financially viable to show the games over other programing--including wrestling, reality tv, nightly news, and many other options--that are all competing for a finite number of viewers .

 

I consider there to be many wrestling, softball, lax fans and even Major League Soccer fans yet women's basketball outdraws these communities in attendance or television ratings often. So, yes, I do believe there are many women's basketball fans. I don't believe that they are just men's basketball fans that are unable to find a game to watch so they settle for a women's game just to get their fix. I believe (and have been explicitly told on a few occasions by men, who as I mentioned are older retirees) that people prefer to watch women's basketball to men's basketball and make the conscious decision to watch it at the expense of men's viewership.

Edited by Pinnum

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NJWC I was a D1 wrestler and a coach too. I've also coached both boys and girls teams. What makes you think that girls would not consider the sport? Have you ever coached anywhere with girls hs wrestling teams? In states with only boys hs wrestling the girls are looked at as being "a bit off" for being the only girl on a boys team wrestling against boys. Why do you think that women's wrestling is an inferior product to mens wrestling? Could it have something to do with them not being allowed to train or compete in organized competition until the past 20 or so years, and that most don't start wrestling until high school?

I agree, while some of the girls who wrestle may be seen as "a bit off" by other kids, boys who wrestle are also often seen that way as well.  We  don't need the vast majority of girls to want to wrestle for it to succeed (virtually no girls row, yet hundreds of colleges sponsor women's rowing).  If women/girls continue to increase their participation, it will end up as a sport that is well supported by college administrations.  Also, in states that support girls wrestling (CA and WA for example), it is thriving.  Its only going to get bigger, no way around it. Sorry to those that are frustrated by this progress, the ship appears to have sailed.

Edited by WRfan1

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You don't think women already hit the weights?  The end result is still going to be a far inferior product, with less athleticism and poorer technique. 

The WNBA can continue to trot out gawky 6'8 females that can "kinda" dunk, but no matter what they do, the product will remain vastly inferior (heck, inferior to HS boys' athletics).

I know there is the PC crew that so desperately wants to believe there is no inequality/differences between the sexes...you're wrong.

Yes, men and women are different, which is why women compete against women and men against men.  Growth in women's wrestling can't be stopped, even if people don't enjoy watching it.  Generally, people don't enjoy watching men's wrestling at the collegiate level, its a niche sport.  Women's wrestling will be as well, but that won't stop its growth.

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women's wrestling is also a huge opportunity for current wrestling coaches. until scholastic institutions pick up their team sponsorship, local wrestling clubs will be the ones that benefit the most from increased female enrollment. you can add another day of classes to the schedule, grow economies of scale and profits, etc. a win win as they say. 

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This is fun to read. 

California has had girls wrestling sanctioned for 6+ years. 

The growth has been amazing. The largest section had to cap their state qualifier tournament at 600 girls. And the quality of wrestling has gone up by leaps and bounds every year. 

Some 23 Universities are in the WCWA and those numbers keep growing. 

Wrestling is so resistant to change, but who do you think are gonna give birth to the next generation of wrestlers. And if mom wrestled and seen how much it taught her, what do you think Jr is gonna do?

My daughter currently wrestles in college on a scholarship, and every year i send girls across the country who are first generation immigrants, out of a bad side of Los Angeles for opportunities they would have never gotten. 

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This is fun to read. 

California has had girls wrestling sanctioned for 6+ years. 

The growth has been amazing. The largest section had to cap their state qualifier tournament at 600 girls. And the quality of wrestling has gone up by leaps and bounds every year. 

Some 23 Universities are in the WCWA and those numbers keep growing. 

Wrestling is so resistant to change, but who do you think are gonna give birth to the next generation of wrestlers. And if mom wrestled and seen how much it taught her, what do you think Jr is gonna do?

My daughter currently wrestles in college on a scholarship, and every year i send girls across the country who are first generation immigrants, out of a bad side of Los Angeles for opportunities they would have never gotten. 

I think it's great that girls have the chance to compete, and the discipline this sport demands certainly can help bring structure to a young person's life.  

My original post in this thread was a response to someone stating that if you don't enjoy watching women's wrestling, "that's on you".  My response was to point out that the female version of the sport isn't very competitive, didn't have much quality, and for many fans of the sport wasn't watchable.

It's subjective, to be sure.

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