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NCAA Proposes New Rules (link)

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Surprised this hasn't been posted here already. 

 

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/wrestling-rules-committee-recommends-making-two-experimental-rules-permanent

 

 

Some of these proposals I like, others I am not sure would change anything. The one I totally disagree with is the tournament scoring system proposal. Shocking, I know. 

 

Like the rule on interlocking fingers. 

 

Generally like the rule on stalling in neutral, but I think there are still issues with the way it is written. 

 

The OOB rule proposal is basically already in the books and requires a lot of judgment anyway. 

 

The control of the mat rule is already in the books and rarely enforced. 

 

3 points for a TD will result in a LOT of quick TF's. 

 

The rule proposal on scoring for TF's is written in a totally confusing manner. 

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I just don't see the refs changing anything as far as neutral stalling with these proposed rules. Go watch the NWCA matches from last year, which they were suppose to call neutral stalling calls like the rules would be changed to now, and see if there is any difference. I saw none. I saw about 10 situations that should have been called stalling and none of them were.  

 

Just add the pushout rule for crying out loud. And why do we have to wait for the NWCA to hold 1 event. the All Star match, to test out rules? Can't they work with or at least take a look at events like AGON, FPL  or maybe the NWCA should hold some more if they want to test these rules out. 

 

Freestyle got it right with the pushout. People thought it would stop technical moves and become a sumo match. It hasn't done that at all.  Guys wrestling in the middle and it creates more scoring situations. When guys go close to the edge they either have to wrestling in a none ideal position or be pushed out. It creates scoring. It rewards position and controlling your opponent. Controlling a guy enough to push him out is wrestling. Backing up so much that you go out of bounds is not good wrestling. 

 

Seriously they added verbiage to make it possible for the guy that pushed a guy out to be called for stalling. Are they out of their minds. 

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I would like the 3pt takedown if they also changed it to 3pt reversals. Add value to the takedown, reversal, and nearfall while keeping the 1pt escape. I hate matches that the bottom guy hits a great move from the bottom for a reversal, his opponent gets an escape, escapes the next period and we are tied at 2. 3 pt reversal would reward the guy being aggressive from the bottom, and the result would be 3-2. Devaluing escapes and penalties to reward offensive scores such as takedowns, reversals and nearfall is a great idea. 

Edited by sockobuw

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I just don't understand the mentality of those who want to protect the right to flee the mat.  The officials - as a group - appear to be incredibly stubborn about penalizing it. 

 

These obligatory stalling situations (5 second return rule, etc) may have the unintended effect of discouraging officials from calling regular stalling as frequently.

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These obligatory stalling situations (5 second return rule, etc) may have the unintended effect of discouraging officials from calling regular stalling as frequently.

This is exactly what is happening. But they were not calling it before these types of rules so they pretty much have to be put in place.  

 

This ambiguous rule for neutral stalling is not going to change anything. 

 

I know I may get it for this, but I have a feeling that the biggest obstacle for getting a pushout rule is the fact that Iowa guys currently push out a lot of guys with no penalty. Anti-Iowa sentiment isn't confined to these message boards. I think many coaches and refs would feel like they are somehow kowtowing to Iowa if they put a pushout rule in.  

 

Just look at the ridiculous line in the proposed rule for neutral stalling and tell me this wasn't put in as a way to appease the Anti-Iowa crowd.

 

  • Stalling for pushing or pulling the opponent out of bounds.

 

Pushing a guy out of bounds as stalling, give me a break. 

 

 

The thing is as soon as a push out rule is put in place Iowa is not going to be any better at pushing guys out than any other quality team. Good teams will stop playing the edges period.    

Edited by OtisCampbell

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I think there's some ego problems in the NCAA trying to tiptoe around it that don't want to admit the international rules body got it right first. Don't expect any changes until fans get totally fed up with oob walkers.

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idk how much i like 3 pt reversals, but i think 3 pt incentive for the 1st takedown and then switch it back to a 2 pt takedown going forward would give wrestlers more incentive to push the action and get that first takedown in the first period

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idk how much i like 3 pt reversals, but i think 3 pt incentive for the 1st takedown and then switch it back to a 2 pt takedown going forward would give wrestlers more incentive to push the action and get that first takedown in the first period

I think they should use a pyramid scoring system for takedowns.

 

3 points - 1st takedown

2 points - 2nd takedown

1 point - 3rd takedown

.5 point - 4th takedown

1 point - 5th takedown

2 points - 6th takedown

3 points - 7th takedown

4 points - 8th takedown

5 points - 9th takedown

... 

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not sure but i think they're trying to keep the step out penalty relegated just to instances of stalling, rather than a true step out penalty the way UWW has it. i would be surprised if this works better than just going full on push out point but at least its a step (hahaha) in the right direction. 

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I think there's some ego problems in the NCAA trying to tiptoe around it that don't want to admit the international rules body got it right first. Don't expect any changes until fans get totally fed up with oob walkers.

 

Exactly. American exceptionalism mentality in governing folkstyle is what has kept us from being competitive at senior worlds for the past 20+ years.

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I suspect that even if there were 10 takedowns every match followed by a pin, it wouldn't help the sport at all. Wrestling has an image problem, and no change to the scoring is going to help with that. I would put scoring changes low on the list of priorities.

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I think there's some ego problems in the NCAA trying to tiptoe around it that don't want to admit the international rules body got it right first. Don't expect any changes until fans get totally fed up with oob walkers.

 

 

I have no insight into why there is no NCAA push out rule yet, but it really needs to happen. It would increases scoring, reduce stoppages, and reward the wrestler who keeps the best position. It's also proven effective, and former NCAA wrestlers who now wrestle freestyle like it. I don't understand what the problem is. 

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I suspect that even if there were 10 takedowns every match followed by a pin, it wouldn't help the sport at all. Wrestling has an image problem, and no change to the scoring is going to help with that. I would put scoring changes low on the list of priorities.

 

Wrestling will never be mainstream. But as long as wrestlers keep doing well in MMA, wrestling will be okay. 

 

The best things wrestling can do are:

 

1) Include women. Start having women compete at the same tournaments as men. The world championships and Olympics already do this. MMA puts on events with both male and female competitors. There is no reason the All-Star meet or the Midlands couldn't have women, either. 

 

2) Action and scoring. Change the rules to make wrestling more appealing to watch. The push out rule should be reform number one, IMO.

 

3) Shorter season. Start the season in January, end it in March or early April. This would reduce the amount of lingering injuries guys deal with. And with fewer overall matches for NCAA seeding purposes, it makes each match count more. It would also give guys more time to train freestyle, Greco, or MMA in the offseason.

Edited by Katie

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Heelpick,

A few years ago, Dake scored 22 team points to Taylor's 24. I agree if you're better than a lower place, the scoring system should reflect it. If the Committee really is thinking about a fan friendly system using dual scoring, then it had better pay particular attention to the place values.

I feel there are at least three parameters:

 

1) A lower place should not be able to easily "leapfrog" a higher place. Right now it's very easy. I researched the last two NCAAs and it happened quite a bit. One suggestion: make the distance between places larger. Currently they're squeezed together. Also make 5th to 8th places worth much more instead of throwing crumbs at them. They are, after all, all-Americans.

 

2) Don't allow 2 or 3 hammers to outscore a half dozen or more AAs. Officially, a mediocre team of three qualifiers, all champions, and without bonus, can beat nine AA seventh places, 60-58.5. (who would you bet to win the dual meet?) This year Michigan's 5 AAs were in 11th place. Only a small handful of teams can produce 5+ AAs every year. Michigan deserved better than that.

 

3) Stop creating invisible all-Americans. Two or three pinners (and some medical forfeits) can generate enough bonus to equal another AA. This is too much of a good thing and can throw off the scoring to produce a surprise top 4 finish by an undeserving "team." We've seen this quite a bit through the years. The team trophies are the highest awards of the NCAA and are supposed to insinuate the element of depth.

Edited by Cooch1

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Please don't make any changes to scoring unless it was to standardize riding time between HS and college (which would mean getting rid of it which would be ok by me. )

 

Wrestling faces a lot of challenges, one of which is the complicated scoring. Let's not change it anymore or make it more complicated. I wrestled freestyle for a long time and have trouble watching it today because of all the scoring changes. There are probably 500 things to work on before we talk about scoring.

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Interesting how after Penn State starting winning titles, there was a mad rush to try to change the championship format and now after tOSU wins, there is a again a major proposed change under discussion, this time to the team scoring. I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is an inherent mid-western bias in college wrestling and when teams from that region aren't winning, all of a sudden the system is defective and needs to be changed. Funny how there were no proposed changes after Gable, Smith or JRob were winning titles under the same system. The powers that be need to get used to the fact there has been a geographic shift in the top college wrestling teams and just because programs east of the Mississippi are winning championship doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong.

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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Funny how there were no proposed changes after Gable, Smith or JRob were winning titles under the same system.

 

And D-1 programs weren't being cut year by year when Gable, Smith, and J-Rob were winning titles.  Try to get a grip, Tigger!  This isn't about PSU.

Edited by redblades

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And D-1 programs weren't being cut year by year when Gable, Smith, and J-Rob were winning titles.  Try to get a grip, Tigger!  This isn't about PSU.

 

I made sure I quoted this so you couldn't edit it once you realized how stupid you sound. Go back and look at when programs were being cut on a regular basis, note what teams were winning championships in those years and then get back to me, dumazz!! 

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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The tournament scoring system is fine. How they ref matches is horrible and it is nothing like they were refereeing them 15-30 years ago. It is so bad that they are forcing the rules committee to try to make new rules to combat the way the refs are calling things. 

 

And actually J Rob did make a big push for changes in the tournament scoring while Gable and Zalesky were winning titles. He wanted lower All Americans to score more points and he got it. So again your lions and buckeyes are not entering some waters that Iowa didn't deal with for 30 years. 

 

1 scoring idea I did hear that made some sense was giving bonus points on the back side a lesser value. They already give half the advancement points why not give half the bonus points.  

 

I mean pinning a guy in the finals should be worth twice as much as pinning Joe Blow in the pigtail wrestlebacks.  Maybe some combo of devaluing wrestleback bonus points and giving a few more points to placers could get rid of some problems.  

 

Like guys losing first round and then scoring more points then a finalist or defaults playing a huge role in team titles.  

 

The caveat with this would be that the seedings would be very big since staying on the championship side would be huge. So they would need to get their act together there. 

 

With all that said again I think the tournament scoring system is the least of our problems. 

Edited by OtisCampbell

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a conspiracy against programs east of the mississippi including mid west bastion ohio state! how unfortunate. i've suffered anti new jersey bias for many years so i know how cruel and harmful such prejudices can be. i hope the college wrestling community sorts itself out and stops victimizing eastern programs like penn state. 

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