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davidtaylorgangordie

UWW Juniors - 74kg

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I too would take Pico over Zain.

 

I would take Zain over any college 141. The jury is out on a couple of college 149's. T Shirts beat Zain a few years ago, but no guarantee now.  I'd have to think about a few others.

 

No predictions on 184? 

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As good as Retherford is in Freestyle I believe he is considerably better in Folkstyle.  Pico will win in controlling fashion in Freestyle but adding mat wrestling would change the result in Retherford's favor, IMHO.

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Just don't see Nolf over Marstellar in free. Chance is much more accomplished in free and wrestles a style that seems to me translates better in free in terms of positioning and finishes. Add in the weight...

 

I would take Nolf all day long in folk though.

 

Not sure why you would think Retherford couldn't take Pico down in folk. The last time I saw Pico wrestle in folk, I'm sure Zain could take him down.

 

A lot of people think wrestling is wrestling, but there are a lot of differences in the two styles - even in neutral.

 

When you have nothing else to compare between two wrestlers, I can see the logic of using freestyle results. When there are big differences in skill level, the style does not matter much. But when you have two high level guys, the styles are very different and I have a hard time seeing the results in one style translating regularly.

 

Pico vs. Retherford in folk is a nice debate topic, but no one can make an informed prediction, we haven't really seen Pico in folk in a while have we?

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Think Pico should be up in the Seniors.  Don't see much upside to Pico staying Jr another year if he's looking at Rio.  A loss to Zain at this point would be much worse than a loss to Metcalf, Oliver, Stieber.  A win over Zain doesn't do much.  Win over those other three would be huge.

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So... what's this forum going to do when Hall wins 74kg?  

Not sure if you're saying that Hall winning is surprising or if people will start making lofty NCAA/ senior level predictions for the rising high school senior, but I don't think many people would be surprised if Hall wins that weight. Gotta think a returning cadet world champ is one of the heavier favorites in the field.

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Retherford will be bigger this time around however Pico has done nothing but train Freestyle for the past two years. Zain should make it a closer match but I still think Pico wins. 

 

I wouldn't read too much into Nolf at 74. He is a bit undersized for the weight but can't make 143. 74 is the perfect weight for Marsteller and is the favorite, imo. 

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Pico has to wrestle here to wrestle in the Jr Worlds, right? i think the move makes sense. he got silver last year in his first year in the division. let him have another crack at Jr gold. 

 

i think he dominates the US competition though. my money is on techs all the way thru. 

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Wrestling juniors makes no sense for Pico at this point. Wrestling kids his age the year before the Olympic is not the way to get ready.. Bad move.

 

Tell that Togrul Asgarov...  After winning a senior medal at 55 kg in 2010, he wrestled Juniors in 2011 in preparation for the Olympics.  

 

It's not unheard of, and some of you don't understand just how tough that Junior World tournament.  I like Pico's coach.  He's taking the time.  It's not like he isn't training and competing against the Seniors.  I would guess he has a goal of winning a Junior World goal.  Patience is far more important than most Americans realize.

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The jr world championship is very tough. The guy he lost to in the finals last year is arguably the favorite at 70 kg seniors now. I wish Pico would do srs like everyone else but it does make sense to try and win worlds in your own age group.

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I thought of Asgarov too. I'm not sure if he skipped srs in 2011 on purpose - Huseynov might have beat him out- bit it sure didn't hurt his development. He also lost in the jr finals in 2010, the same year he lost in the sr finals. That jr tournament may not be hugely deep but the top guys are usually true world class wrestlers.

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So... what's this forum going to do when Hall wins 74kg?  

 

 

 

When Hall wins? Are you stating that Hall winning 74kg is a foregone conclusion? I think some of the field might have other ideas about that. Not saying he won't win, but am saying there is some real competition he will have to go thru. 

Edited by TBar1977

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When Hall wins? Are you stating that Hall winning 74kg is a foregone conclusion? I think some of the field might have other ideas about that. Not saying he won't win, but am saying there is some real competition he will have to go thru. 

 

The rest of the field actually got together and decided they wanted to let Hall win so they are all on the same page. Can't believe you missed that announcement.

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Tell that Togrul Asgarov... After winning a senior medal at 55 kg in 2010, he wrestled Juniors in 2011 in preparation for the Olympics.

 

It's not unheard of, and some of you don't understand just how tough that Junior World tournament. I like Pico's coach. He's taking the time. It's not like he isn't training and competing against the Seniors. I would guess he has a goal of winning a Junior World goal. Patience is far more important than most Americans realize.

Pico is good but no Asgarov. I stand by what I said. Pico needs more exposure to seniors if his goal is to represent the US in Rio. Going the junior route is not optimal literally a year before the Olympics. If his goal is 2020, sure. But not for 2016.

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Pico is good but no Asgarov. I stand by what I said. Pico needs more exposure to seniors if his goal is to represent the US in Rio. Going the junior route is not optimal literally a year before the Olympics. If his goal is 2020, sure. But not for 2016.

 

I am not sure the answer, but if he wins the Junior open, he gets a bye to the JR WTTs finals. So couldn't he theoretically go to Nothern Plains, win that to qualify for WTT in the senior division, wrestle JR WTT finals and secure his JR world team spot. Then enter Seniors?

 

Otherwise he has to risk not winning the Senior open, and if he doesn't wrestle JR open, has to go through entire JR WTT bracket (which means more matches) to earn that spot and then go through the Seniors again.

 

I am just spit ballin' here.

Edited by hawktalk3

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I don't know either. If his plan is to compete at senior WTTs one way or another and he is entering juniors at the open as a warm-up, then what I said clearly does not apply. Who knows what his plan and motivations are. At this point, my view is he has 11-12 months to prepare for the SENIOR Olympics so wrestling a bunch of youngbucks he will dominate over the senior field he has to beat in a year is not the right move.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Pico is good but no Asgarov. I stand by what I said. Pico needs more exposure to seniors if his goal is to represent the US in Rio. Going the junior route is not optimal literally a year before the Olympics. If his goal is 2020, sure. But not for 2016.

 

 

Oh my!  Please forgive me OH Omniscience One.  Humbly forgive my impudence! I kneel beneath thee in utter embarrassment of my pontification!

 

To date: Pico has beaten the reigning World Champion, and finished 2nd in Junior World.  At this stage in his career he IS a Togrul Asgarov.  I apologize that you have seen the future and know that Pico isn't making next year's Olympic team!

 

Pico does nothing EXCEPT get "exposure to seniors" - he trains with them, has competed against them, and more importantly, seeks training opportunities with foreign "senior" opponents.  He isn't 'going the Junior route."  He is attempting to wrestle in the Junior World championships, which IS optimal, as it is the breeding ground for the Olympic and World medals.  Feel free to look at the number of Junior World Champs who go on to represent their country in the Olympics/World Championships, the number MAY surprise you.

 

This "american" concept of needing competition at the 'next' level is the biggest reason we don't do as well Internationally.  Pico is getting far more out of training with the Senior level Americans and foreigners than he would competing in the US Open.  It's ONE tournament. He isn't the favorite to win it, so I understand the 'patience' is coach is undertaking in this PROCESS that is preparing him for a run at an Olympic Medal.

Edited by vhsalum

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