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rodneydeeeee

All Dake Fans

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Interesting evolution since last spring when the Taylor brigade dreamed of a wrestling matchup between DT and Dake.

 

Now it's 'what if DT beats dake once out of 4 meetings?'.

 

Sorry Scribe, your speaking about people that do not include me and may care less about this question. I'm one man asking a question. Not about 1 of 4 matches, etc.

 

Your looking to stir stuff when I asked a simple question.

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When Dake wins his 4th NCAA championship in March, he will be #2..... Smith took a redshirt year so did Sanderson. Dake didn't. The reason Dake won't be #1, is because Cael went undefeated.

 

And it doesn't matter if Dake wins his matches by 1 or 2 pts the rest of the season. If he goes undefeated and wins #4, he will be #2.

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If Dake wins 4 titles, he'll be up there, but I don't think it's crazy to question where he stands in relationship to some other guys who may have only won 3 titles. But that 4th title would put him in rare air, no matter how many times he loses this year. Why does wrestling value wins during the regular season so much? In team sports nobody really cares what your record was if you win the Super Bowl, World Series, etc. Likewise, being undefeated during the season means nothing if you don't win the championship. Obviously in Cael's case it distinguishes him from everyone else, but in Dake's case, since he's already lost some matches, I don't care how many more he loses if he can win that 4th title.

 

The other question here, in addition to Dake's legacy, is what will Taylor's legacy be? If he loses to Dake at NCAAs but then never loses another match, he'll finish 2-1-2-1, and could rightly be considered one of the greats, at least in the last 15 years or so. But if he doesn't win another NCAA title, he'll be on a different list, of perhaps some of the best wrestlers to only win one title. I think this also put's Dake's career in perspective. It's not easy to win multiple NCAA titles. From Bubba Jenkins-like moments to defending champs moving into your weight, there are a lot of obstacles to winning multiple titles.

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In my opinion, winning 4 titles at 4 different weights is an equal or greater feat than completing your career undefeated.

 

Also, if Taylor goes 2-1-2-1 I would place him top 10-20 wrestlers in the past decade (without doing research).

 

Winning matches on that elevated blue mat at the very end of the season determines your legacy.

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In my opinion, winning 4 titles at 4 different weights is an equal or greater feat than completing your career undefeated.

 

As has been mentioned by others, I really don't know how the 4 different weights part factors into the level of the accomplishment, other than to say it's a very interesting piece of trivia, and good for him for not being afraid to go up. But guys grow and change weights very often, albeit not necessarily one weight class per year like Dake.

 

I agree that it's winning titles in March that should determine legacy much more so than regular season stats, just like every other sport, but to me, the 4 titles in 4 years is the amazing accomplishment, the "4 different weights" is just a fun fact that doesn't affect the accomplishment.

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In my opinion, winning 4 titles at 4 different weights is an equal or greater feat than completing your career undefeated.

 

As has been mentioned by others, I really don't know how the 4 different weights part factors into the level of the accomplishment, other than to say it's a very interesting piece of trivia, and good for him for not being afraid to go up. But guys grow and change weights very often, albeit not necessarily one weight class per year like Dake.

 

I agree that it's winning titles in March that should determine legacy much more so than regular season stats, just like every other sport, but to me, the 4 titles in 4 years is the amazing accomplishment, the "4 different weights" is just a fun fact that doesn't affect the accomplishment.

 

 

 

If winning 4 titles is the accomplishment, would Cael going undefeated just be a "fun fact" or "interesting piece of trivia"? I think Cael going undefeated certainly adds to his accomplishment and I certainly feel moving up a weight class every year while in college adds to the accomplishment. I would go so far as to say that winning 4 titles, no redshirt & moving up a weight every year is a greater accomplishment.

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If winning 4 titles is the accomplishment, would Cael going undefeated just be a "fun fact" or "interesting piece of trivia"? I think Cael going undefeated certainly adds to his accomplishment and I certainly feel moving up a weight class every year while in college adds to the accomplishment. I would go so far as to say that winning 4 titles, no redshirt & moving up a weight every year is a greater accomplishment.

 

 

Makes no sense really.

 

Dake has been beat which proves he is beatable. Multiple times.

 

Cael was NEVER beat when the lights were on and matches counted. Not once.

 

How is that comparable?

 

And throwing out the redshirt moving up can be countered by 'Cael was WAY, WAY, WAY more dominant and had only a handful of matches in his career decided by a regular decision.

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If winning 4 titles is the accomplishment, would Cael going undefeated just be a "fun fact" or "interesting piece of trivia"? I think Cael going undefeated certainly adds to his accomplishment and I certainly feel moving up a weight class every year while in college adds to the accomplishment. I would go so far as to say that winning 4 titles, no redshirt & moving up a weight every year is a greater accomplishment.

 

 

Makes no sense really.

 

Dake has been beat which proves he is beatable. Multiple times.

 

Cael was NEVER beat when the lights were on and matches counted. Not once.

 

How is that comparable?

 

And throwing out the redshirt moving up can be countered by 'Cael was WAY, WAY, WAY more dominant and had only a handful of matches in his career decided by a regular decision.

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If winning 4 titles is the accomplishment, would Cael going undefeated just be a "fun fact" or "interesting piece of trivia"? I think Cael going undefeated certainly adds to his accomplishment and I certainly feel moving up a weight class every year while in college adds to the accomplishment. I would go so far as to say that winning 4 titles, no redshirt & moving up a weight every year is a greater accomplishment.

 

Don't get me wrong. I like Dake. And I'm with you on the redshirt thing. No redshirt and 4 titles in 4 years is amazing. But the difference between Cael's undefeated record and Dake's "4 weights" is that with Cael, that record reflected wrestling ability, and in Dake's case, it just shows that he got bigger. So yeah, with Dake I consider the weight class deal more a piece of trivia than an undefeated record. Each year Dake has wrestled, he has looked huge for the weight, with the exception of this year, where I'd say he looks "pretty big" but not huge. Simple fact is he has grown each year. It definitely adds to the excitement that he hasn't been afraid to go up in weight class, but it's not a tie-breaker with Cael. Cael gets the nod in terms of overall record and level of dominance. Dake gets the nod in terms of no redshirt, which is a big deal. The strength of competition probably cannot be evaluated until 10 years from now, but right now Cael gets the nod. BUT ALSO.........don't forget of course Dake still has to win NCAAs this year. It's far less certain for Dake this year than it was for Cael in 2002.

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We've also had guys who wrestled in an era when freshman were ineligible who were 3x champs, went undefeated throughout their careers, and were also Olympic medalists while still in college. Uetake won the Olympics at the '64 Games and Hodge was a runner-up at the '56 Games. (Hodge was up 8-2 in the gold medal match when he rolled through on a move and the ref called a controversial touch fall - with 2 seconds remaining.)

 

Another of my favorites, Gray Simons, wrestled at Lock Haven when it was an NAIA school. Therefore, he was able to wrestle four years, but wasn't allowed to compete in the NCAA tournament his freshman year. He ended up as a 4x NAIA champ and a 3x NCAA champ - and was named the Most Outstanding Wrestler in six of those seven tournaments. He lost one match early in his freshman year, by a 7-6 score when he bumped up a weight to face the defending NCAA champion. He also made the Olympic team after his sophomore year and scored one of the biggest upsets of the 1960 Games when he beat the Russian Aliev, who was the reigning world champion. (BTW, Simons didn't move up in weight, but he didn't redshirt either!)

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