Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
tightwaist

Does California produce the most talented wrestlers?

Recommended Posts

Yes California has been churning out some world beaters and really loading up their teams.   3 made the top 20 rankings this season and a contact of mine on the west coast tells me John Azevedo is at it again with his team, placing 3rd in the state this year (ahead of Buchanan) and has all of his state [pints returning as well as some studs entering the line up.   Lets not forget the great Calvary Chapel teams he produced in the 90s.    

 

This is only good for wrestling.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grapplegirl,

 

I'll tell you, I've seen it all.   I'm not too pervy to insider info coming out of California (I have my sources) I'm just like you and the rest, I'm across the entire damn country.   But Ol Cletus aint dumb.   I can tell which way the wind is blowing when we're down wind an entire valley fill with cow manure.   

 

California decided a few years ago they were going to flex their muscle and put the entire country on notice.   What was it, 2 Olympic ago, they put the first 2 weight on the mat (Abas, Guerrero, Kelly) and got 2 silver medals for they effort.   What the entire rest of the team did?   Who was it on the team, Cael?  I don't recall and caint find me program for the games.   My point, 1 state put 3 of the 7 reps on the mat in China or wherever it was.   

 

Look, Ol CLetus aint gonna lie to you.   I've always said PA puts out the most depth and with their unique situation wiht colleges in the Key stone state, they manage the most AAs year in and year out.   that's fancy.   I give them they all.   But lets look further into the numbers and who's really building something and putting out world beaters.   

 

Pico

 

Valencia

 

Valenicia

 

the 57 pounder undefeated national champ

 

olivas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grapplegirl,

 

I'll tell you, I've seen it all.   I'm not too pervy to insider info coming out of California (I have my sources) I'm just like you and the rest, I'm across the entire damn country.   

 

 

You're too modest about yourself, Cletus=suzie....you sound very pervy.

Edited by rossel3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've thought this for a little while and I'm not a CA native.  California's elite seem to be on a different level than the rest of the US with technique and pulling off things that others can't.  Abas (both) used to hit moves that left you wondering what planet they were from.  Pico and Valencia are in the mix at the Sr level already.  Welch in HS was on a different level as well.  You see them pulling off impossible feats.  At least from my perspective.  Changing the wrestling world out there in California.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way you can reach the conclusion that California produces the best wrestlers is if you ignore all results, past and present, and keep saying to yourself, Pico, Valencia and Martinez over and over and over again and fantasize about all the hardware they are supposedly going to win; and even then a handful of successful guys isn't going to elevate a state to the top of the heap. Seriously, California has the largest population, by far, and is consistently out produced by several states in AAs, National Champs and U.S. Open/WTTS Champs….and as far as elite level talent:

 

Best pound-for-pound Sr. Level wrestler: Burroughs (NJ)

 

Best pound-for-pound college wrestler: Stieber (OH)

 

Best Jr. Level pound-for-pound wrestler: Snyder (MD)

 

 

Fun Fact: CA wrestler has only won the Hodge once and that was 16 years ago. 

 

EDIT: Flo just released it's new high school pound-for-pound rankings. Not one CA wrestler in the top 14!

Edited by Flying-Tiger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way you can reach the conclusion that California produces the best wrestlers is if you ignore all results, past and present, and keep saying to yourself, Pico, Valencia and Martinez over and over and over again and fantasize about all the hardware they are supposedly going to win; and even then a handful of successful guys isn't going to elevate a state to the top of the heap. Seriously, California has the largest population, by far, and is consistently out produced by several states in AAs, National Champs and U.S. Open/WTTS Champs….and as far as elite level talent:

 

Best pound-for-pound Sr. Level wrestler: Burroughs (NJ)

 

Best pound-for-pound college wrestler: Stieber (OH)

 

Best Jr. Level pound-for-pound wrestler: Snyder (MD)

 

 

Fun Fact: CA wrestler has only won the Hodge once and that was 16 years ago. 

 

EDIT: Flo just released it's new high school pound-for-pound rankings. Not one CA wrestler in the top 14!

 

 

They're talking about the Olympic level numb nuts!!!!   Since 1996, going back about 20 years.  Which state has produced the most Olympic medals (Freestyle and Greco)??  Which of course, the Olympics is the highest level of wrestling.

 

Most people are afraid to admit it....it's ok....we understand.  You want to stick to NCAA stats, that's where you feel safe.  Here's a list!!!....let's see your list??

 

 

CALIFORNIA’s OLYMPIC & WORLD LEVEL WRESTLERS

 

JAKE VARNER – 2012 Olympic Gold Medalist (Freestyle)

2x NCAA Division I Champion/4X Finalist (Iowa State)

2x California State Champion/4x California State Medalist (Bakersfield HS, C)

STEPHEN ABAS – 2004 Olympic Silver Medalist (Freestyle)

3x NCAA Division I Champion (Fresno State)

4x NCAA Division I All-American

3x California State Champ/4x Medalist (Canyon Springs HS, S/James Logan HS, NC)

 

DAVE SCHULTZ – 1984 Olympic Gold Medalist (Freestyle)

1983 World Freestyle Champion

2x Tblisi Champion

3x World Silver Medalist

2x World Bronze Medalist

5x World Cup Champion

2x Pan American Games Champion

7x USA Senior Freestyle Champion

1982 NCAA Division I Champion (University of Oklahoma)

3x NCAA Division I All-American

California State Champion/3x Medalist (Palo Alto HS, CC)

MARK SCHULTZ – 1984 Olympic Gold Medalist (Freestyle)

2x World Freestyle Champion

3x NCAA Division I Champion – OW (1982)

4x National Open Freestyle Champion

Pan American Games Champion

California State Champion (Palo Alto HS, CC)

Inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame (1995)

Inducted into the California Hall of Fame (2000) 

 

JAMIL KELLEY – 2004 Olympic Silver Medalist (Freestyle)

NCAA Division I Qualifier (Oklahoma State)

JUCO All-American (Lassen College)

California State Medalist (Atwater HS, SJ)

 

STEPHEN NEAL – 1999 World Champion (Freestyle)

2x NCAA Division I Champion/4x All-American (CS Bakersfield)

Dan Hodge Award Winner ‘99

FILA Outstanding Wrestler Award

4x Academic All-American (CS Bakersfield)

California State Medalist (San Diego HS, SD)

 

TOWNSEND SAUNDERS – 1996 Olympic Silver Medalist (Freestyle)

1992 & 1996 Olympic Team Member (Freestyle)

2x Pan American Games Champion (Freestyle)

2x NCAA Division I All-American (Arizona State)

NCAA Division II National Champion (CS Bakersfield)

California State runner-up (Torrance HS, S)

 

Gary Bohay- Canada/AZ St

Silver medalist at  1989 world championship (lost to john smith) NCAA AA, state medalist for Fountain Valley HS

 

Marco Sanchez- Puerto Rico/AZ St./Independence HS

Two time state medalist and state champion 1988

3 time junior national medalist and 1988 champion

3 time University National Champ

Espoir National Champ

4th in 1990 Espoir World Cup

3 time US Olympic Festival Gold medalist

National Open AA 4xs(3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 4th)

2x NCAA AA, PAC ten champ at AZ St

Henri DEGLANDE INTERNATIONAL champ 1995

1996 Olympic qualifier 4th

1996 Olympics-15th 

 

GREG GIBSON – 1984 Olympic Silver Medalist (Greco-Roman)

3x World Medalist – Freestyle (Silver, Bronze, Silver)

World Cup Champion – Greco-Roman 

Pan American Gold Medalist

2x NCAA Division I All-American (University of Oregon)

 

ADAM WHEELER – 2008 Olympic Bronze Medalist (Greco-Roman)

8x USA Greco National All-American

Pan American Silver Medalist

3x Armed Forces Medalist

5x All Navy Team member

CIF Southern Section Masters Qualifier (Lancaster HS, S)

 

PATRICIA MIRANDA – 2004 Olympic Team Member (Women’s Freestyle)

2004 Olympic Bronze Medalist

Pan American Gold Medalist

2x World Silver Medalist

Bronze Medalist - World Championships

2x World Cup Champion

 

ERIC GUERRERO – 2004 Olympic Team Member (Freestyle)

4x US Open Champion

World Cup Champion

2x USA FILA Junior World FS Champion

Junior National Champion - Freestyle

3x NCAA Champion/4x All-American (Oklahoma State

3x California State Champion/4x Medalist (Independence HS, CC)

 

HEATH SIMS – 2000 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman)

2x California State Champion (Woodbridge HS)

California JC State Champion (Cerritos College)

 

QUINCY CLARK – 2000 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman)

2x NCAA All-American (University of Oklahoma/San Diego State)

7th CA State (Lincoln Prep HS, SD)

 

DAN HENDERSON – 1992 & 1996 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman)

Junior National Freestyle Champion

2x California State Medalist (Victor Valley HS, S)

 

TIM VANNI – 1988 & 1992 Olympic Team Member

4th 1988 Olympic Games

5th 1992 Olympic Games

4x US Freestyle National Champion

3x World Cup Medalist

5th 1987 & 1989 World Championships

6th 1982 & 1986 World Championships

4x Letterman at Cal State Bakersfield

2x California State Medalist (Monache HS, C)

 

JOE GONZALEZ – 1984 Olympic Team Member (Freestyle)

NCAA Division I Champion (Cal State Bakersfield)

NCAA Division I runner-up 

Junior National Champion – Freestyle 

Tblisi Champion (Freestyle)

 

JOHN AZEVEDO – 1980 Olympic Team Member (Freestyle)

NCAA Division I Champion/3x Finalist (Cal State Bakersfield)

Junior National Freestyle Champion

2x California State Champion (Grace Davis HS)

MARK FULLER – 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman)

Pan American Games Champion – Greco-Roman

CA State Medalist (Lincoln HS, SJ)

 

Afsoon Roshan-  independence HS - CC/ UC Davis

World medalist 90's

 

Sharon Williams- Chaffey HS (guessing) S

WORLD medalist 90's

 

Marcie Van Dusen -Lake Arrowhead CA.

2008 Olympic team member

 

Victoria Anthony-

2014 PanAm Champion 

2013 Womens World Team 48kg

3X Junior World Champion

Marina HS, Huntington Beach, CA (CIF Southern Section Champion at 103's)

 

Maria Prado- Ignacio Valley HS-NC

World team member 90s

SERGIO GONZALEZ – 1972 Olympic Team Member (Freestyle)

2x NCAA Division I finalist (UCLA)

J. ROBINSON – 1972 Olympic Team Member (Freestyle)

 

BUCK DEADRICH – 1972 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman)

7x National Champion (five in freestyle, two in Greco-Roman)

World medalist in all three styles (Freestyle, Greco-Roman, and Sombo)

2x USWF/USA Wrestling Freestyle Champion

1969 AAU Freestyle Champion

Chabot College Hall of Fame

 

JAMES STEIGER – 1972 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman) 

 NAIA National Champion/2x All-American (U.S. International)

 

RICHARD TAMBLE – 1968 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman)

 2x NAIA All-American (Adam State)

 

RUSS CAMILLERI– 1960 & 1964 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman) 

7x National FS Champion

PAT LOVELL– 1964 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman)

National FS Champion

2x PAC 10 Champion

CHARLIE TRIBBLE – 1964 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman)

BEN NORTHRUP – 1960 Olympic Team Member (Greco-Roman)

DICK DELGADO – 1956 Olympic Team Member (Freestyle)

2x NCAA Division Champion – OW (University of Oklahoma)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With combined population around 65 million it is difficult to imagine wrestling not getting better if California and Texas start producing in proportion to their populations. Texas definitely lags, California is starting to produce commensurate with its population- happy to see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Grappler69, this is the college wrestling forum!

 

Make a list like that for PA, OH, Iowa, Oklahoma and then talk to me. Probably NJ and NY as well but I'm certainly not going to waste my time. California produces a lot of great wrestlers, but trying to argue it is the single best state based on any reasonable criteria is just stupid. You California clowns need to go away before you turn every wrestling fan outside the golden state against your guys.

Edited by Flying-Tiger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Grappler69, this is the college wrestling forum NUMB NUTS!!!!!

 

Make a list like that for PA, OH, Iowa, Oklahoma and then talk to me. Probably NJ and NY as well but I'm certainly not going to waste my time. California produces a lot of great wrestlers, but trying to argue it is the single best state based on any reasonable criteria is just stupid. You California clowns need to go away before you turn every wrestling fan outside the golden state against your guys.

Can we take McIntosh and Nevills with us?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a bit easier than you think to figure out.  It's not an exact science as no one would have the same list but try to list your top 25 wrestlers of all-time and then list the top 25 current wrestlers.  Break them down into where they are from and you could have a reasonable answer.

 

All-Time-----------------------------------------------------------------------Current---------------------------------------------------

1.)Sanderson-Utah                                                            1.)Dierenger-Wisconsin

2.)Dake-New York                                                             2.)I. Martinez-California

3.)Gable-Iowa                                                                    3.)Gwiazdowski-New York

4.)Hodge-Oklahoma                                                          4.)Dean-Michigan

5.)Uetake-Japan                                                                5.)Brewer-Missouri

6.)Stieber-Ohio                                                                  6.)Megaludis-Pennsylvania

7.)Lee Kemp-Ohio                                                             7.)Bo Jordan-Ohio

8.)Pat Smith-Oklahoma                                                     8.)J'Den Cox-Missouri

9.)John Smith-Oklahoma                                                  9.)Jason Tsirtsis-Indiana

10.)Haselrig-Pennsylvania                                              10.)Tomasello-Ohio

11.)Joe Williams-Illinois                                                  11.)Snyder-Maryland

12.)Schalles-Pennsylvania                                             12.)McIntosh-California

13.)Mark Churella-Michigan                                           13.)Coon-Michigan

14.)Tom Brands-Nebraska                                             14.)Nathaniel Brown-Pennsylvania

15.)McIlravy-South Dakota                                             15.)Cory Clark-Iowa

16.)Greg Jones-Pennsylvania                                        16.)Realbuto-New York

17.)Stepen Abas-California                                            17.)Ian Miller-Ohio

18.)Ed Banach-New York                                               18.)Gilman-Iowa

19.)Gene Mills-New York                                               19.)Garrett-California

20.)Ben Askren-Wisconsin                                             20.)Retherford-Pennsylvania

21.)Jake Varner-California                                             21.)Medbery-Colorado

22.)Stephen Neal-California                                          22.)Z. Jordan-Ohio

23.)Gray Simons-Virginia                                              23.)Hartmann-Washington

24.)Mark Schultz-California                                           24.)Brascetta-Ohio

25.)Burroughs-New Jersey                                           25.)Moisey-Pennsylvania

 

 

 

Combining both the Top3 are still the top 3: PA, OH and CA all have 7.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MSU158, that is one way to look at it, but key words in your post to me are 'your top'...depending on state bias, I could drop say a few Cali guys and easily add a few PA guys to erase that tie.

 

and going back a few posts to flying tiger...Pa does dominate in so many categories, no matter how you slice and dice it...yet the Oly medal count is fairly low in comparison.  

 

and as I continue on the tangent run...for all the Pico, Valencia, etc hype...see one Cary Kolat. Beating NCAA champs while still in HS, Midlands placer when it was much tougher than today, etc. Yes screwed over blah blah blah but at the end of the day the record shows no world or Oly golds, and his placings got progressively worse each year. 2-3-4-9(?). So let's not count all those Cali senior level golds just yet. Time will tell. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KTG119,

 

I did this from STRICTLY a College wrestling basis.  Out of Curiousity who would you bump off on either side and who would your PA wrestler be that you would bump into the list?  Other than Kolat, I don't really see a PA guy that has that strong of an argument.  And I say that still believing PA is the most talented wrestling state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KTG119,

 

I did this from STRICTLY a College wrestling basis.  Out of Curiousity who would you bump off on either side and who would your PA wrestler be that you would bump into the list?  Other than Kolat, I don't really see a PA guy that has that strong of an argument.  And I say that still believing PA is the most talented wrestling state.

MSU158, strictly college, I could argue Nate Carr over Stephen Neal and/or Varner. 3 titles to 2 for each of those Cali guys. strictly college, Nate and Mark Schultz probably line up pretty well too...3 titles, DNP as freshman, some losses even during their championship seasons in conf finals amongst others.

swoopdown named a few other Pa guys of note as well (though Eichelberger I think was from Va?). Cuvo was another dominant Pa guy, what did he run off at the end, 80+ in a row? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't do my list by strictly amount of titles.  I also heavily weighed how good they were by the end of their career.  For instance, John Smith and Burroughs probably have the worst 4 season resumes and yet they were arguably the best wrestlers in the World their Senior years.  This is also the thought process(although he wasn't quite the best in the World) as to why I have Neal where he is.

Edited by MSU158

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't do my list by strictly amount of titles.  I also heavily weighed how good they were by the end of their career.  For instance, John Smith and Burroughs probably have the worst 4 season resumes and yet they were arguably the best wrestlers in the World their Senior years.

got it. and not saying your way is wrong...just more that with these things there rarely is a 'right' way (one that most will agree with). some will place more weight on titles, some on 4 year resume, some on level of comp, some on overall winning %, some on whatever combination of those factors suit them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to nitpick, but Mills was NJ.  

 

I do agree Ca has a some studs and is a very good state but not in the game with Pa. There are so many good kids right now but Pico Valencia, and Martinez are awesome.  However, not far ahead of the likes of Snyder, Retherford, Spencer Lee,  Marstellar, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...