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treep2000

USA Freestyle @ 74kg - 2015-2016 Timeframe

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Did Dake beat Taylor 7 times? I knew of three, two folkstyle (all-star meet and NCAAs) and then the freestyle pin. That's enough for me, but if he beat him elsewhere when was it? Childhood stuff? I don't know that that's relevant. 

 

Also, it's unfair to talk about hypothetical win if a match had been wrested under different rules. Wrestlers wrestle to win and know the rules. The match plays out differently under different rules. For example, when a wrestler shoots and scores in the last seconds of a match to win on criteria, I don't say "well, under the old rules, that would have gone into OT so it's not a win" or whatever. 

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Granby Troll is refering to the fact that if the were operating under regular FILA rules at the 2013 WTT then there would have been no overtime and if the score had stayed @ 6-6 then Dake would have won on criteria due to his 3 point move.  However I think you need to remember that both wrestlers knew the rules they were operating under so JB knew it was going into OT.  It is impossible to know how that match would have ended if JB knew he was down by criteria and needed a score before time was up.

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Taylor is in a no win situation this time around with Dake (if he hits him).  If he wins, it is b/c Dake is coming off of injury.  If he loses, to Dake, then he might as well give up wrestling.

 

Only way DT gains respect of his detractors is if he wins a world/Olympic medal...And even then, if its is not Gold, he will still be viewed as a failure by many.

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Angry I agree with your point and it underscores the bigger point that at their level it's all that matters. There are plenty of damn fine wrestler who never wrested in a world championship of Olympic Games. Mike Sheets and John Fisher come to mind. Also Brian Dolph and of course Pat Smith. In the end it is what it is.

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Angry I agree with your point and it underscores the bigger point that at their level it's all that matters. There are plenty of damn fine wrestler who never wrested in a world championship of Olympic Games. Mike Sheets and John Fisher come to mind. Also Brian Dolph and of course Pat Smith. In the end it is what it is.

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I think the point that I was trying to make, and failed in an epic way, was the amount of 'hype' associated on all these forums with 10-11 guys that are hovering around this weight.  Again:

 

1.) Burroughs:  All the hype, and GOLD

2.) Dake:  4x NCAA Champ... hype galore, but loses every hypothetical matchup

3.) Taylor:  2x NCAA Champ, 2x Hodge... hype galore, and wins most hypothetical matchups

4.) Howe:  NCAA Champ, hype galore... and wins his fair share of hypothetical matchups, but constantly loses to the above three

5.) Valencia:  Newfound hype, 3rd as US Open as a Sr. in HS... 

6.) Caldwell:  Tons of hype, University Gold, just won Pan Ams, etc.

7.) Dieringer:  Immense amount of hype, 2x NCAA Champ, another season to go

8.) BoJo:  Tons of hype, only NCAA loss at championships to AD... tons of hype going into next season and beyond

9.) Miller:  Destroyed Caldwell last year, tons of hype in FS

10.) Mark Hall:  May have the most hype of any HS phenom in quite some time, and is beating his way into the conversation. 

 

Then there's IMAR:  Tons of HYPE... Marable... 70kg representative... etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc... 

 

From a US perspective, I see depth.  There are no other weight classes that you can list this amount of HYPED talent, and hype is based on their performances.  

 

At 65kg, we have internal depth per se, but not as deep in my opinion.  57kg?  No chance.  61kg?  No chance.  86kg?  No chance... 97kg?  There's depth, but NOT like 74kg.  Same with 125kg.  

 

So... bringing this thread back one last time, and then I'm moving on!  :-)

 

Any additional thoughts on the depth?  

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According to DT in a new YouTube video promoting shoes and socks he mentioned he's in reach of world and Olympic gold, also mentions Tsargush not on world team, to be the best I guess you got to think your the best. But he's got a big mini tournament to get through and a fresh JB to actually beat 2 times

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JB

 

Dake is injured / coming back from injury.  

 

As much as I love the guy -- and he has proved his skills again and again -- he has to show he can win a major international tournament before we put him next to JB.

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Fascinating. And what would Dake's freestyle career look like if all his matches were retroactively scored under the old Judo rules?

 

I'll let you know when Taylor has a single freestyle win over a past world medalist under any rules. 

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I'll let you know when Taylor has a single freestyle win over a past world medalist under any rules. 

 

74 KG - David Taylor (USA) vs. Yabrail Hasanov (Azerbaijan) beat the streets but he has not done anything at 74KG only at 66Kg

I wanna see Taylor against a guy that has placed constantly at 74KG

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There was a time on these boards where there was about a 50/50 split in the debate between Dake/Taylor.  Then Dake ended the entire debate by beating Taylor umpteen times in a row.  The Taylor supporters, as one would expect, backed off their position.  Since then the DT grave dancers have not let up.  Wow, the hate.

Edited by Angry_Fish

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