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Angry_Fish

WTT Pre-Seeds

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Do they do pre-seeding for WTTs like they do for the US Open?  If so, when are they announced?

 

Very interested to see where they put Kennedy and how they handle the top 4 spots at 74KG.

 

Of course I am only referring to seeding for the mini-tourneys.

 

Hoping we don't have to wait until after weigh-ins to see the seeds/brackets.

 

Thanks.

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I was wondering this myself. How much do seeds matter in the mini-tournament? In the WTTs the entire focus is on winning the mini-tournament and challenging whoever got a bye to the finals. The tournament is small (hence "mini tournament") and in the US even in stacked weight classes there is a steep dropoff in quality after the first few people. Pair that with the real goal of getting to challenge, to my mind your challenge is virtually unchanged other than the order of who you wrestler. 

 

Take 74kg. Without re-hashing the questions of Dake-Taylor and so on, let's just pretend there are only four people in the tournament, in alphabetical order Caldwell, Dake, Taylor, Valencia. There are four different seedings that have Dake and Taylor one-two (I think it's safe to assume that they will be one-two and maybe some people feel Dake should be one and others Taylor). So we have:

 

A. Taylor, Dake, Valencia, Caldwell

B. Taylor, Dake, Caldwell, Valencia (almost impossible since Valencia teched him)

C. Dake, Taylor, Valencia, Caldwell

D. Dake, Taylor, Caldwell, Valencia (ditto)

 

So what difference does it make? Taylor still in all likelihood has to wrestle Dake to get to Burroughs. Even if they seed Dake 3rd it doesn't change that much. 

 

Or is there a different way of looking at it?

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Seedings matter.  Consider the following:

 

1. The #1 seed in in the mini tourney gets a bye.  So does the #2 at 74KG.  Upsets happen, as do injuries.  Having one less match to wrestle is a significant advantage.  

 

2. Some of the guys are coming into the tourney banged up (e.g. - Oliver).  Having one less match to wrestle can affect how long they can hold up.

 

3. The top 3 guys make the team (although only one goes to World's), but the other two reap benefits too ---- including cash, alternate status, etc.

 

4. Consider 65KG this year....Oliver, Russell, Steiber, Kennedy, Molinaro....and then a big drop in talent, IMO, to Ness and Chamberlain.  The 1,2 & 3 seeds will be significant favorites in the first round -- in fact the one seed will have a bye.  Meanwhile the 4 & 5 seeds will be in a boodbath from go with the winner then having to wrestle Oliver (coming off a bye).  I think Oliver and Russell have the 1 & 2 seeds locked up, but I assure you that the Kennedy, Stieber and Molinaro camps will be loppying hard for that 3 seed.  I don't think Molinaro has much of an argument to make for the 3 seed, but Kennedy and Stieber sure do.

 

5. Back to your example at 74KG, I'm sure Dake and Taylor would prefer to see each other in the finals rather than the semis, but I guess it is not as big of a deal as the situation at 65KG.

 

Back to my orginal question, do they even do pre-seeds for WTTs or do they wait to weigh-ins and only announce the seeds/brackets at that point?

Edited by Angry_Fish

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Fair points on why seeding matters. Call me crazy but I would like to see more discretion in seeding and if should be about who should meet when and not about recent results. If you care at all about seeding Dake should be in the conversation for first and second seed. Maybe he doesn't get it but it's by no means obvious he shouldn't.

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Seedings matter.  Consider the following:

 

1. The #1 seed in in the mini tourney gets a bye.  So does the #2 at 74KG.  Upsets happen, as do injuries.  Having one less match to wrestle is a significant advantage.  

 

 

There are seven guys qualified for 74kg, so only Taylor should get a bye. Howe will most likely have Godley in the first round. The 74 seeds should be 1) Taylor 2) Howe 3) Dake 4) Valenica 5) Caldwell 6) Sponseller 7) Godley. I would be shocked if it went any other way.

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There are seven guys qualified for 74kg, so only Taylor should get a bye. Howe will most likely have Godley in the first round. The 74 seeds should be 1) Taylor 2) Howe 3) Dake 4) Valenica 5) Caldwell 6) Sponseller 7) Godley. I would be shocked if it went any other way.

 

Wow.  Thanks Melo.  My bad.  I had it in my head that b/c there was no WC granted at 74KG, there would only be 7 guys total (6+JB). 

 

Agree on your seeding.

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I think Valencia has small chance if he could stay away from DT tie ups and shoot his doubles like he did against Howe. DT pushes the pace though and will not let there be a gap so lots of warning on Valencia will be placed he will be forced into DT game. Tough match for Valencia but DT got this one but still will be great to watch

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Fair points on why seeding matters. Call me crazy but I would like to see more discretion in seeding and if should be about who should meet when and not about recent results. If you care at all about seeding Dake should be in the conversation for first and second seed. Maybe he doesn't get it but it's by no means obvious he shouldn't.

 

You're Crazy.  The best part about wrestling is that results are the only thing that matters.  If they wanted a higher seed they should have wrestled in more tournaments and proved it.  Our guys hardly compete as it is.  Dake does have some special circumstances, and a solid track record of beating these guys at WTT, but in general I completely disagree with the premise. 

Edited by GoNotQuietly

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I think Valencia has small chance if he could stay away from DT tie ups and shoot his doubles like he did against Howe. DT pushes the pace though and will not let there be a gap so lots of warning on Valencia will be placed he will be forced into DT game. Tough match for Valencia but DT got this one but still will be great to watch

 

Not only that, but we KNOW Anthony won't be afraid. He truly believed he was going to beat Howe, and he will step right up and scrap with DT. Doesn't mean he'll win, but that confidence bodes well for his future if he gets more precise and selective in his attackes. So excited to see him  and Mark Hall develop.

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