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silver-medal

Best Pound for Pound

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It's a punk move destroying opponents like Steiber does. Who is he trying to impress? Maybe his top fan - silver-medal?

 

This is nonsense. What is he supposed to do, go easy when he is beating and/or better than somebody? If you don't want to get beaten, don't participate in competitive sports.

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It's a punk move destroying opponents like Steiber does. Who is he trying to impress? Maybe his top fan - silver-medal?

 

This is nonsense. What is he supposed to do, go easy when he is beating and/or better than somebody? If you don't want to get beaten, don't participate in competitive sports.

 

Definitely. It's what great wrestlers do. Put on a show for the fans!

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Pound for pound analysis is the most asinine way to determine who is the best wrestler. What does that even really mean? Have you ever seen a heavyweight named the best pound for pound wrestler? How about a 197 pounder? No. It's always a guy at a lower weight. And why does it matter, they all compete against guys the same weight. Why wouldn't you just say best wrestler right now? What does pound for pound have to do with it or even really mean? It makes no sense whatsoever. Please stop using this ridiculous term

 

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

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Pound for pound analysis is the most asinine way to determine who is the best wrestler. What does that even really mean? Have you ever seen a heavyweight named the best pound for pound wrestler? How about a 197 pounder? No. It's always a guy at a lower weight. And why does it matter, they all compete against guys the same weight. Why wouldn't you just say best wrestler right now? What does pound for pound have to do with it or even really mean? It makes no sense whatsoever. Please stop using this ridiculous term

 

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

Not to state the obvious to you, but I think it was initially used to compare boxers. So, for someone to say, "Ali is better than Leonard," wouldn't be a fair comparison. However, pound for pound, or the two weighing the same, Leonard may be able to beat Ali.

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Pound for pound analysis is the most asinine way to determine who is the best wrestler. What does that even really mean? Have you ever seen a heavyweight named the best pound for pound wrestler? How about a 197 pounder? No. It's always a guy at a lower weight. And why does it matter, they all compete against guys the same weight. Why wouldn't you just say best wrestler right now? What does pound for pound have to do with it or even really mean? It makes no sense whatsoever. Please stop using this ridiculous term

 

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

Actually, yes. His name is Cael Sanderson. And he is still to this day considered the best collegiate wrestler ever.

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Pound for pound analysis is the most asinine way to determine who is the best wrestler. What does that even really mean? Have you ever seen a heavyweight named the best pound for pound wrestler? How about a 197 pounder? No. It's always a guy at a lower weight. And why does it matter, they all compete against guys the same weight. Why wouldn't you just say best wrestler right now? What does pound for pound have to do with it or even really mean? It makes no sense whatsoever. Please stop using this ridiculous term

 

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

Not to state the obvious to you, but I think it was initially used to compare boxers. So, for someone to say, "Ali is better than Leonard," wouldn't be a fair comparison. However, pound for pound, or the two weighing the same, Leonard may be able to beat Ali.

 

Ban, that explanation is the only somewhat logical explanation of this term. I still don't like it, but it somewhat does make some sense.

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Why is it that everyone who claims Steiber is best P4P has "buck" in their handle, or otherwise hails from Ohio? Come on people. Try to have at least a modicum of objectivity.

 

The clear #1 here is Howe. I assume people aren't including him because he's redshirting, but his accomplishments against non-collegiate competition is better than anyone else. He's both beaten and outplaced Dake and Taylor, has won US Nationals, and is one of a small handful of guys that can give Burroughs a match. Obviously freestyle isn't folkstyle, but comparing relative results against top competition is one of the few ways to add objectivity to an otherwise subjective analysis.

 

After Howe, there's a decent argument to be made for Dake, Taylor, Oliver and Steiber. I think most non-biased folks would have Dake slightly ahead of Taylor (winner of last two, but the last one very narrowly), and Oliver slightly ahead of Steiber (having split 1-1, but Oliver's win was more convincing and without controversy). Oliver and Steiber have Jr. World medals, and Dake has a nice run in OTTs. I'd go Dake, Oliver, Steiber then Taylor, but wouldn't quarrel much with those who'd shift these around.

 

The next grouping is Ruth and McDonough. What they have in common are strong NCAA showings, but what they lack is are any wins over competition that we can all agree is truly elite -- whether in-season folkstyle or in freestyle against post-graduates. I'd go Ruth, then McDonough.

 

After that, you have guys like Kilgore, Ramos and Maple, Wright and Bosak.

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Why is it that everyone who claims Steiber is best P4P has "buck" in their handle, or otherwise hails from Ohio? Come on people. Try to have at least a modicum of objectivity.

 

The clear #1 here is Howe. I assume people aren't including him because he's redshirting, but his accomplishments against non-collegiate competition is better than anyone else. He's both beaten and outplaced Dake and Taylor, has won US Nationals, and is one of a small handful of guys that can give Burroughs a match. Obviously freestyle isn't folkstyle, but comparing relative results against top competition is one of the few ways to add objectivity to an otherwise subjective analysis.

 

After Howe, there's a decent argument to be made for Dake, Taylor, Oliver and Steiber. I think most non-biased folks would have Dake slightly ahead of Taylor (winner of last two, but the last one very narrowly), and Oliver slightly ahead of Steiber (having split 1-1, but Oliver's win was more convincing and without controversy). Oliver and Steiber have Jr. World medals, and Dake has a nice run in OTTs. I'd go Dake, Oliver, Steiber then Taylor, but wouldn't quarrel much with those who'd shift these around.

 

The next grouping is Ruth and McDonough. What they have in common are strong NCAA showings, but what they lack is are any wins over competition that we can all agree is truly elite -- whether in-season folkstyle or in freestyle against post-graduates. I'd go Ruth, then McDonough.

 

After that, you have guys like Kilgore, Ramos and Maple, Wright and Bosak.

 

 

...I mostly agree. I think you might be slightly underrating McDonough in this discussion, but I also admit that may be due to my personal biases in his favor. I think Dake and Oliver are the top 2 (with Howe redshirting).

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The next grouping is Ruth and McDonough. What they have in common are strong NCAA showings, but what they lack is are any wins over competition that we can all agree is truly elite...

 

 

Ruth's opponents Amuchastegui and Lewnes are as elite as anyone that Dake or Taylor have ever beaten.

 

Edit: Oops

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Ruth's opponents Amuchastegui and Lewnes are as elite as anyone that Dake or Taylor have ever beaten.

 

Agreed. I would go Dake, Taylor, Ruth, Steiber, Oliver, McDonough. It's hard to have McD so low on this list, but I can't rank him ahead of the other 5.

 

And where did Mocco rank on the list of P4P throughout his career?

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Why is it that everyone who claims Steiber is best P4P has "buck" in their handle, or otherwise hails from Ohio? Come on people. Try to have at least a modicum of objectivity.

 

The clear #1 here is Howe.

 

...

 

After Howe, there's a decent argument to be made for Dake, Taylor, Oliver and Steiber. I think most non-biased folks would have Dake slightly ahead of Taylor (winner of last two, but the last one very narrowly), and Oliver slightly ahead of Steiber (having split 1-1, but Oliver's win was more convincing and without controversy). Oliver and Steiber have Jr. World medals, and Dake has a nice run in OTTs. I'd go Dake, Oliver, Steiber then Taylor, but wouldn't quarrel much with those who'd shift these around.

 

 

Picking Howe is nitpicking, since not too many would disagree with your choice, but he is clearly not wrestling in college this year so is in the eyes of most posters not in consideration -- hence, nary a mention before yours.

 

I'm a NYer and think Stieber is #1 on the list. Obviously, a loss to Ramos in a couple of weeks, which is very possible, would unseat him from that spot, but a similar argument could be made for the other top guys when facing their best competitors too. He is as dominant this year as anyone in college and is a significantly improved returning champion, a title he earned by beating another top 5 lb-for-lber. I wouldn't argue against the guys who have Dake #1, but based on what I've seen so far, I think Stieber is more complete because of his ability to pin (not that Dake can't, so I really am picking nits here) and his ability to consistently score TDs even against the most elite in his weight class.

 

Those that rank Oliver ahead of Stieber are ignoring the important fact that this is a lb-for-lb comparison. Sure, Oliver at 133 might beat Stieber again, but that's irrelevant at this point in time because Oliver is now up two weights and, despite a strong start, has a lot to prove still before he is considered better than the guy who beat him at 133 and is staying there.

 

As for Taylor, one of my favorite college wrestlers, sorry, but there is no decent argument to be made for him until he beats Dake. You can't be lb-for-lb the best while having an unavenged loss to another candidate for the same recognition.

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nicely done fatman. personally i like ditka in a bus filled with the 86 bears over foyt and mears, but thats just my opinion.

 

it is also easy to rank oliver ahead of steiber if you believe it was a td, i do, and consider he bombed him in the dual meet.

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"it is also easy to rank oliver ahead of steiber. . ."

 

Pretty goofy comment. If he wanted to win the title he could have done somethng prior to the last 10 seconds. Quite frankly, Stieber was denied an obvious takedown earlier in the match but it wasn't called.

 

I still give the nod to Dake. And I would put Kilgore second and Stieber third until Taylor beats Dake -- if that ever happens.

 

Howe is dominent but his recent results in both folk and free preclude him from the best p4p. Next year we'll see.

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"it is also easy to rank oliver ahead of steiber. . ."

 

Pretty goofy comment. If he wanted to win the title he could have done somethng prior to the last 10 seconds. Quite frankly, Stieber was denied an obvious takedown earlier in the match but it wasn't called.

 

I still give the nod to Dake. And I would put Kilgore second and Stieber third until Taylor beats Dake -- if that ever happens.

 

Howe is dominent but his recent results in both folk and free preclude him from the best p4p. Next year we'll see.

 

 

why goofy? if you were in the 50% that thought oliver won the match with the td then you definitely would not have any hesitation to rank oliver ahead of steiber. especially, when he beat steiber in the dual pretty easily. if you don't think it was a td then you probably would rank steiber ahead of oliver bc he won on the big stage and oliver's win was in a dual. interesting to think that they both had a loss to other opponents last year also.

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Stieber is pretty much as dominant as he was last year at this point.

 

Through 15 matches all bonus point wins.

 

Last year through 15 matches he had 13 bonus point wins.

 

The difference? Last year he wrestled Carter and Schopp whom he beat 6-1 and 10-5 respectively.

 

He's yet to wrestle anyone close to that caliber at this point. It's possible he's better, but he was embarrassing people and ripping dudes shoulders on top last year as well.

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The difference? Last year he wrestled Carter and Schopp whom he beat 6-1 and 10-5 respectively.

 

He's yet to wrestle anyone close to that caliber at this point. It's possible he's better, but he was embarrassing people and ripping dudes shoulders on top last year as well.

 

 

Very true. Only point of comparison is Shelton Mack, whom he beat 9-1 last year while this year Stieber scored over 10 points in the first period before recording the pinfaIl in the second. Only being one match it's not really a meaningful comparison.

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I'll sig anyone on the Stieber/Ramos match. If Stieber wins:

 

"Logan Stieber is a four-timer for sure!"

 

If Stieber loses, make your choice. Just be fair :D

 

Stieber will NOT lose to Ramos. I'll bet much more than a signature on this one.

 

I still like Oliver near the top of my P4P list.

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Guest Hammerlock3
How old was Cael his senior season?

 

 

cael was 32, a solid three years older than stieber would be upon his fourth

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I think that any attempt right now to rank the "Super Seven" this early is almost futile, all are so exceptional that I feel like a case can be made for almost any of them (personally, I'd put McDonough a step behind due to somewhat of a lack of dominance, but even there, the guy would be a three-timer if not for the unique challenges presented by Robles). We have to see how Logan matches up with Ramos and the others, how Dake/Taylor plays out, etc.

 

The thing that is almost beyond dispute is that if you are watching his matches closely, Stieber seems to be the most visibly improved of this group thus far, wrestling with a completely new level of confidence, and is ability to consistently pin or tech guys ranked in that #7-#20 range is just ridiculous. He's much stronger, much more aggressive and much crisper than a year ago. Hunter is also one of the most improved wrestlers in the nation. These guys are a coach's dream with their work ethic and passion for the sport and will only get better.

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Pound for pound analysis is the most asinine way to determine who is the best wrestler. What does that even really mean? Have you ever seen a heavyweight named the best pound for pound wrestler? How about a 197 pounder? No. It's always a guy at a lower weight. And why does it matter, they all compete against guys the same weight. Why wouldn't you just say best wrestler right now? What does pound for pound have to do with it or even really mean? It makes no sense whatsoever. Please stop using this ridiculous term

 

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Right, nobody consider Cael the best when he was a 197...............

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Pound for pound analysis is the most asinine way to determine who is the best wrestler. What does that even really mean? Have you ever seen a heavyweight named the best pound for pound wrestler? How about a 197 pounder? No. It's always a guy at a lower weight. And why does it matter, they all compete against guys the same weight. Why wouldn't you just say best wrestler right now? What does pound for pound have to do with it or even really mean? It makes no sense whatsoever. Please stop using this ridiculous term

 

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Right, nobody consider Cael the best when he was a 197...............

 

 

A pound of Cael was better than a pound of anyone else that year...

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