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BigTimeFan

UWW Cadet Thread

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Lee looks as dominant as always. However after seeing Fix at junior natty in Vegas, Lees never gone against a wrestler with counter abilities like fix does right now. Fix also looks huge to me. Still picking spencer but its gonna be a good one and I can't believe it because if you would have asked me 2 months ago I would have said that Spencer Lee would never get touched in high school and now I would not be shocked if he lost this match.

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This is going to be good. Fix seems to have had some kind of breakthrough lately. He seems like an entirely better, stronger and faster version of the guy that Petry teched and who had a close one with Yianni. Not that Yianni is a B player or anything it's just that he isn't the same bad ass, slick wrecking machine that Fix and Lee are.

 

I one hundred percent agree that one hundred people surveyed will say Lee over Fix but most of them are saying nothing more than what they have heard. Lee has been much more of a story than Fix. Fix didn't medal in the cadet worlds and has had a few losses here and there. But anyone who has been paying attention need look no further than the UWW junior nationals and ask whether Lee has ever wrestled anyone as tough as Fix looked there? I doubt it.

 

I'm taking the easy way out and saying who the hell knows but it's going to be a heck of a match. I just know I won't be stunned if Fix wins. I won't even think it's an upset. I will think we have the makings of a great rivalry. And if Lee wins I don't think Fix is going anywhere either. He's a kid on the make and getting better all the time.

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Nicely put Russelscout

 

By the way according to Flo the finals are best of three. Even better to get a real sense. I would gamble that it goes three matches. Maybe. Flo says 9am for those. Wow. Don't go staying out all night.

Edited by BigTimeFan

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This is what makes wrestling special. As russellscout noted, 2 months ago nobody picks against Lee. After Junior Nationals and what we have seen here from Fix you get the sense that maybe Fix can beat him. I too have that sense. Maybe Fix really CAN beat Lee, and maybe tomorrow will be that day. All of this said, I won't pick agaimnst Lee until I see someone actually do it.

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Guest Kingsland

Both guys gave verbals to Cornell

 

Is there a background story that is interesting on Yianni vs Arujua? Knowledge is sketchy here but I think Yianni is said interested in Cornell. I'm guessing Arujua is the younger brother of Nick who was at Cornell. Thus, likely both from NY. Guessing they know each other. Any info? Makes the finals match more interesting.

Edited by Kingsland

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16 mats ... and flo has all of them?  Wow.  I know folks like to give flo a lot of crap but you have to recognize the value they are bringing.  Good stuff.

 

 

 

It's not that folks like to give Flo crap, it's that after frustration after frustration, folks can't hold back any more and must vent their frustrations.   

 

I just expect terrible service when dealing with Flo and in turn I'm not surprised when it happens.    

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I have a suggestion for a more systematic and organized way we name threads. All threads will have one of three titles:

 

1. Why Flo annoys me as it relates to xyx tournament.

 

2. Why Taylor will beat Dake even though he never beat Dake as seen through a discussion of this seemingly unrelated wrestler (Insert the wrestler you want to discuss)

 

3. Why the transitive property of wrestling doesn't work, demonstrated by discussing this wrestler or weight class.

 

If you need a fourth we could add

 

4. A discussion of forum etiquette and which thread belongs where discussed instead of discussing this actual topic (insert the topic you want to but won't get to discuss)

Edited by BigTimeFan

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Looks to me like there were two push outs for 1 pt each for each wrestler.  The last push out gets the Tie Breaker so Murin won.

What about the caution?

 

Critieria SHOULD be

1. Bigger points

2. Least cautions

3. Last to score

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Don't think least cautions is part of the criteria.  Never heard that mentioned as part of the criteria since they eliminated the ball grab.

 

Thought it was

 

1. Most 4 point moves

2. Most 2 points moves

3. Last to score.

Edited by Angry_Fish

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Don't think least cautions is part of the criteria.  Never heard that mentioned as part of the criteria since they eliminated the ball grab.

 

Thought it was

 

1. Most 4 point moves

2. Most 2 points moves

3. Last to score.

WRONG

From

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZXYP9ZG_rFRH6hRglZMrAp8rtjn1yE1NxaOjl4w0dus/edit

 

  • If the point total is equal at the end of a match, the following criteria will determine the winner, in this order:

    1. Highest value scoring actions (most 5 point actions (G/R only), most 4 point actions, most 2 point actions)

    2. Least number of accrued cautions

    3. Last point scored, assuming that point is not from an autotouche scenario

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WRONG

From

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZXYP9ZG_rFRH6hRglZMrAp8rtjn1yE1NxaOjl4w0dus/edit

 

  • If the point total is equal at the end of a match, the following criteria will determine the winner, in this order:

    1. Highest value scoring actions (most 5 point actions (G/R only), most 4 point actions, most 2 point actions)

    2. Least number of accrued cautions

    3. Last point scored, assuming that point is not from an autotouche scenario

 

 

Was not aware that was/is the case:

 

So that means that one of the following must be true:

 

1. The rule has been changed and it is not reflected in the doc you posted.

2. The scoresheet is wrong.

3. They awareded the victory to the wrong wrestler

4. Konrath won

5. Some sort of DQ occured that is not reflected on that scoring sheet.

6. Other.

 

So which is it?

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1. The document was modified May 23rd...it's up to date

2. The scoring is correct per the match

You can watch it here

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/252176-2015-UWW-Cadet-University-Nationals/video/770821-54kg-Quarter-finals-Max-Murin-Pennsylvania-vs-Paul-Konrath-Indiana#.VWpk3s_49D9

3. That seems to be the case

4. See 3

5. No DQ occurred

6. Watch the match

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Knowarth's point was from the shot clock (Pd 1).

 

Murin's point was from a pushout (Pd 2).

 

The caution you see on the scoring sheet was the caution isued before the shot clock was turned on.  So I don't believe it is used in the tiebreaking criteria.  

 

If there were 2 pushouts for points and 1 caution issued.  Then I think the wrestler who received the caution would lose (regardless of who scored last).

 

I know that is not spelled out in the rules you posted, but I belive that is the way it is applied.

Edited by Angry_Fish

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Knowarth's point was from the shot clock (Pd 1).

 

Murin's point was from a pushout (Pd 2).

 

The caution you see on the scoring sheet was the caution isued before the shot clock was turned on.  So I don't believe it is used in the tiebreaking criteria.  

 

If there were 2 pushouts for points and 1 caution issued.  Then I think the wrestler who received the caution would lose (regardlessf of who scored last).

 

I know that is not spelled out in the rules you posted, but I belive that is the way it is applied.

You THINK or you KNOW?

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I know this.  Every time I have seen a match end 1-1 when the first point was scored on the shot clock and the 2nd was on a pushout, the wrestler who scored on the pushout won.

 

I don't recall a match with 2 pushouts and 1 caution on the wrestler scoring last.  But based on the rules you posted, I THINK the caution would be the determining factor.

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I know this.  Every time I have seen a match end 1-1 when the first point was scored on the shot clock and the 2nd was on a pushout, the wrestler who scored on the pushout won.

 

I don't recall a match with 2 pushouts and 1 caution on the wrestler scoring last.  But based on the rules you posted, I THINK the caution would be the determining factor.

What other matches have you seen like this?  Show me some examples of matches scored EXACTLY like this and the winner based on last one to score.

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Bob - not sure why other's need to prove it to you.  Seems like others responding to your inquiry is something you should be thankful for.  Instead, you seem pretty antagonistic.  Personal interest here?  Seems like you need to find this exact scoring in other matches and prove that the match went to the other wrestler.

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Bob - not sure why other's need to prove it to you.  Seems like others responding to your inquiry is something you should be thankful for.  Instead, you seem pretty antagonistic.  Personal interest here?  Seems like you need to find this exact scoring in other matches and prove that the match went to the other wrestler.

He's our resident know-it-all so I would expect him to know the rules, especially something as simple as the tiebreakers.

 

Went through all of Senior Nationals matches and today's UWW Cadets and no other 1-1 matches. I'm curious where all these matches have occurred. 

 

P.S. I have talked to someone that knows the rules pretty well and he is baffled at how Murin could be declared the winner.

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I know of one, but the streaming was down for that match so I can't show it to you.

 

But who knows, maybe they misapplied the rules in all these bouts.  Someone should have protested/appealed (or whatever it is called in Freestyle).  Just like Miller's coaches should have in NCAAs.  People make mistakes.  That's why there is a process to correct errors.

 

If you want to know for sure how the rule SHOULD be applied, regardless of how it was applied, contact USA Wrestling.

 

BTW -- IMO, a pushout should trump a shot clock violation in a 1-1 bout. 

 

But I do concede that based on the written rules Bob posted, it appears that the rules were not applied correctly.

 

Interested to hear what USA Wrestling has to say on this if Bob or someone takes it up with them.

Edited by Angry_Fish

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