UWW Cadet Thread

[Husker_Du 873]

 

So I guess the order should be 1. Diakomihalis. 2. Fix. 3. Lee. 

 

 

 

Why would that be the order?

[fanta 49]

5-5, 9-6 is A$$ whooped? 

 

Fanta what are you talking about? The matches were both close and certainly not an ass kicking. Get real...

 

 

Ok....he just straight out lost!!!  His dream to make the world team this year has been eradicated, defunct, it is extinguished till next year! 

 

I bet he comes back ten times stronger though, mark my words, he will be ready!  You learn more from losses than wins.

[KingK0ng 175]

Was I making excuses? Saying (asking actually) that a guy was tired because he was nervous is a excuse now? That's new to me.

 

 

yea, you're right, it probably was nerves....it's not like Fix was out there doing anything but hanging around.

 

They wrestled a match, Fix scored when he had to and got his hand raised nothing more, nothing less...Lee may very well win the next matchup, but he didn't today because Fix wrestled a little bit better, no excuses.

Edited May 31, 2015 by KingK0ng

[Axe_Spartan 205]

yea, you're right, it probably was nerves....it's not like Fix was out there doing anything but hanging around.

 

They wrestled a match, Fix scored when he had to and got his hand raised nothing more, nothing less...Lee may very well win the next matchup, but he didn't today because Fix wrestled a little bit better, no excuses.

Overreacting at its finest.

 

Fix was better, nobody here is making excuses.

[GuillermoBilletas 149]

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage/251529-FILA-Cadet-University-Nationals/video/746121-Spencer-Lee-World-Champions-Do-Not-Get-Scored-On#.VWtiD2TBzGc

 

Gonna be tough to come back from this one.  He went from not believing he could be scored on in America to giving up 14 points in 8 minutes

[straggler 65]

Why would that be the order?

For the moment. Diakomihalis has taken 2 out of 3 against Fix and most recently lost a thisclose match where Fix wrestled very defensively. Obviously Fix can win the next one. And Fix just beat Lee straight up. Also this shows the Lee is human and not head and shoulders above everyone. 

Edited May 31, 2015 by straggler

[Cletus_Tucker 890]

Ok....he just straight out lost!!!  His dream to make the world team this year has been eradicated, defunct, it is extinguished till next year! 

 

I bet he comes back ten times stronger though, mark my words, he will be ready!  You learn more from losses than wins.

 

 

10 X stronger?

 

 

If he can improve by 10% that would be a giant leap.   1/10 would be fantastic.   10 X???   Sir, get off the drugs.   

[BobDole 1,221]

Angry_Fish has this right.  The problem is an imperfect Trackwrestling method of documenting passivity/shot clock indications.  Passivity calls are NOT cautions (and never have been in freestyle since the advent of the 30 second clock).  So in this match, no actual cautions -- thus last point scored prevailed.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, criteria is:

 

1. Highest valued hold(s)

2. Fewest cautions (but passivity is NOT a caution)

3. Last point scored.

 

And yes, I KNOW this.

 

Matt

Well according to people that actually KNOW the rules aka refs that are of the highest level in the USA....you are wrong. Cautions per the shot clock are the SAME...as evident by this match today

 

[BobDole 1,221]

Wonder what happened in Konrath's consi match where we was awarded the win 3-3 over Hagan but Hagan scored last.  As Matt points out, you can't really tell what happened just from looking at Track.  Maybe Bob can post the vid of the bout and we can see how it differend from the match that he lost.

 

After this 3-3 win, the kid forfeited his next bout.  Wonder why?

This was scored correctly and the winner was correctly Konrath.

 

He got Miller'd in his quarter-final match. His coaches trusted three officials at a national level even to know the rules on tiebreakers.

[Angry_Fish 313]

This was scored correctly and the winner was correctly Konrath.

 

He got Miller'd in his quarter-final match. His coaches trusted three officials at a national level even to know the rules on tiebreakers.

 

Why did he FF?

[BobDole 1,221]

He had a date with a hottie and couldn't miss it.

[Husker_Du 873]

For the moment. Diakomihalis has taken 2 out of 3 against Fix and most recently lost a thisclose match where Fix wrestled very defensively. Obviously Fix can win the next one. And Fix just beat Lee straight up. Also this shows the Lee is human and not head and shoulders above everyone. 

 

Yianni win over Fix at S32 - Nov '14

Fix win over Yianni at FloNats - April '15

 

when was the 3rd meeting ?

[straggler 65]

Yianni win over Fix at S32 - Nov '14

Fix win over Yianni at FloNats - April '15

 

when was the 3rd meeting ?

Yianni beat Fix twice in the Super 32 finals in 2012 and 2014. He lost to Fix 3-1 in OT at the Flo Nationals in their most recent match. 

[SC_Wrestling 71]

It is way too early to tell the long term success of these wrestlers.  They have a lot of maturing to do in the next few years.  

[NJWC 305]

Hasn't Suriano beaten Fix a few times?

[Axe_Spartan 205]

It is way too early to tell the long term success of these wrestlers.  They have a lot of maturing to do in the next few years.  

 

I agree, they are kids yet. We have to see how they will do against the seniors in a few years.

[Husker_Du 873]

Yianni beat Fix twice in the Super 32 finals in 2012 and 2014. He lost to Fix 3-1 in OT at the Flo Nationals in their most recent match. 

 

ah. middle school division.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Husker_Du

[Axe_Spartan 205]

Watching those 2 matches again, even losing both I still like more Lee's wrestling than Daton's, Lee focused more on takedowns (and he got more in the finals) and Daton on par terre offense with the turns and counter-exposure, no offense to anyone, it's just a matter of preference.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Axe_Spartan

[BigTimeFan 1,141]

Axe, I agree. As I have thought about it for a day I wonder whether Lee isn't more likely to beat more people internationally. This happens as we have all discussed on these boards. 

 

To your point I think that Lee will have an easier time improving from here. He is plenty tough and aggressive and he really knows how to score. He can develop a bigger gas tank and better tactics. My feeling about the matches is that indeed Fix out-smarted him. He wrestled much softer in the first period and then overwhelmed Lee in the second. Of both matches.

 

Finally, I'm personally disappointed that Lee didn't win because I would have preferred to see him go to UWW Cadet Worlds and then see Fix in the UWW Junior Worlds. 

[Husker_Du 873]

Hasn't Suriano beaten Fix a few times?

 

No, they wrestled twice, splitting matches.

 

they wrestled about a cumulative of 40minutes with 1 takedown total.

[Axe_Spartan 205]

Axe, I agree. As I have thought about it for a day I wonder whether Lee isn't more likely to beat more people internationally. This happens as we have all discussed on these boards. 

 

To your point I think that Lee will have an easier time improving from here. He is plenty tough and aggressive and he really knows how to score. He can develop a bigger gas tank and better tactics. My feeling about the matches is that indeed Fix out-smarted him. He wrestled much softer in the first period and then overwhelmed Lee in the second. Of both matches.

 

Finally, I'm personally disappointed that Lee didn't win because I would have preferred to see him go to UWW Cadet Worlds and then see Fix in the UWW Junior Worlds. 

 

Yes, hopefully Lee will see those loses as a push to improvement in his tactics, like we were saying, he is still very young, there is so much we will see from him yet.

 

Anyway, I think Fix will do well on Cadet Worlds and eventually in the Junior Worlds, I was wondering if he takes the gold on both (that would be insane!), is there any other wrestler who took Cadet and Junior Worlds at the same year?

Edited June 1, 2015 by Axe_Spartan

[tightwaist 390]

Axe, I agree. As I have thought about it for a day I wonder whether Lee isn't more likely to beat more people internationally. This happens as we have all discussed on these boards. 

 

To your point I think that Lee will have an easier time improving from here. He is plenty tough and aggressive and he really knows how to score. He can develop a bigger gas tank and better tactics. My feeling about the matches is that indeed Fix out-smarted him. He wrestled much softer in the first period and then overwhelmed Lee in the second. Of both matches.

 

Finally, I'm personally disappointed that Lee didn't win because I would have preferred to see him go to UWW Cadet Worlds and then see Fix in the UWW Junior Worlds. 

 

Lee actually won the takedown battle 5-1 against Fix.  Lee's problem in his first match was that he was still trying to score with 30 seconds left when he could have easily played defense and forced Fix to have to score.  Lee has one glitch in his neutral offense that I am sure he will correct also...he tends to not finish his high crotch shot real quickly and stays on his knees.  This gave Fix the opportunity to expose him.   As I have said prior, in folk style I don't think this match is close.  Lee took him down multiple times and he is an absolute hammer on top in folk.  However, kudo's to Fix for finding a way to win.  Fix has some guts for sure!

[wrestlingnerd 3,011]

I too think Lee is the better technical wrestler but I no longer think Lee is the better wrestler. It takes more than technique to beat someone and whatever Fix lacked in TD technique, he made up for with just about everything else.

 

The reason we have best of 3s is to get a lot closer to removing doubt, and right now, Fix is a better wrestler than Lee until the results prove otherwise. What might happen in folk is interesting, but I don't understand how anyone can be as sure as some posters about the outcome of that hypothetical match-up given what just happened. Pretty much all of us, including myself, sucked at predicting the outcome of their freestyle matches. How anyone can be as confident as some of you of what might happen in folkstyle is beyond me.

 

The way their matches went, I would almost expect to see Fix give up a few takedowns only to turn it on in the third and pull out a win by outworking and out-horsing Lee the way he just did twice in a row. Lee is a monster on top, but Fix was even more monstrous on top this weekend. He was also physically more impressive, better conditioned, and mentally stronger and more aware. The kid showed zero evidence of fatigue while beating a world champion in two very active matches. Does Lee's better TD ability trump all that? I don't know anymore. I'd still bet on Lee, but my wager size just got reduced by several decimal places.

[Axe_Spartan 205]

Watching other matches of Fix on this UWW Cadet National and his matches on the UWW Junior Nationals (beginning with the quarter finals), he has nice TD ability as well (it's just those matches with Lee he focused on other aspects of his game), he is really good on the counterattack takedowns, shrug takedowns and the inside trip (yes, Lee proved this one).

Edited June 2, 2015 by Axe_Spartan

[boconnell 1,631]

If Fix could make superior horsepower and willpower come to bear that much in a 4 minute match, I don't understand how so many think a 6 minute match will show Lee's superior technique.  Freestyle is made to showcase technique and de-emphasize conditioning.  The increased grind and physical aspect of a 6 minute folkstyle match is going to play just as big a role as the takedown factor when relating this performance to a folkstyle match.

 

Fans of Lee are somehow convinced that a loss here must be explained away.  The truth is that Lee is a better version of the dominant world champ he was a year ago.  Nothing needs to be explained away.  Cadet Worlds might even prove Lee is better against the rest of the world than Fix (Fix certainly can't perform any better than Lee's perfect run last year).  So Lee's superstardom is just as secure as ever.  Another guy just made HUGE leaps in the last year and joined him up in orbit.  That is not a bad thing and nobody need go through so much trouble trying to explain it away.