BobDole 991 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 http://www.ncaa.com/news/wrestling/article/2015-06-08/panel-approves-drop-down-neutral-position-stalling-rules-wrestling Highlights Dropping down to a leg is now a permanent rule Going out of bounds on your feet can now bring a stall call 4 point nearfall after a 4 count Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Medicine_Man 875 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 I like it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heelpick 116 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 Not a fan of 3 pt takedowns in experimental rules. Locking below the waist will require clarification in the case of attempting a cradle, etc. Dropping to the ankle should go directly to a penalty point, but a warning is a start. If a first period ends with no takedown, it should be a double stall warning. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katie 807 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 Still no push out. Lame. What are they waiting for? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heelpick 116 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 Push outs suck but we have already had that 10 page argument. Calling stalling more often will negate the need for a push out rule. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headshuck 2,311 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 Only in wrestling do we have rules surrounding buttocks. 3 scribe, GranbyTroll and Coach_J reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Two_on_one 121 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 Push outs suck but we have already had that 10 page argument. Calling stalling more often will negate the need for a push out rule. The stall call option has been around for years and has proven time and again to not work. Stepout/pushout rule has been a huge success in freestyle and would likely bring excitement back to college wrestling. It is certainly worth a try. 2 HuskyHero133 and 2td3nf reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heelpick 116 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 The rules were enforced in the 80s and early 90s. The only reason that stalling isn't enforced is a lack of will on the part of officials. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribe 1,666 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 Defensive wrestling is FAR more sophisticated now than in the 80's. That's the difference. Not referreeing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bloate 61 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 Stall rule will never work, too subjective. Push out on the other hand is for the most part obvious. 2 GranbyTroll and HuskyHero133 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaroslav Hasek 1,905 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 as walter white learned, sometimes there are no half measures. just take the plunge and institute a the step out penalty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plasmodium 1,699 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 I love the push out in freestyle, but I am leery about it folkstyle. In freestyle, out is out. In folkstyle, people shoot, somebody has a toe in, hips get turned and the guy who initiated action gets a stall? Very grey area. In general, I don't get this obsession with labeling everything as stalling. Is everyone on the panel from the nosebleeds in Carver-Hawkeye? For clarity, just call it a rule and a point. This will probably lead to disqualifications and stalling specialists. I predict the Russian tie makes a big comeback as a point scoring move. Daniel Dennis was a man before his time! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buck 65 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 STALLING, it's my right to scream it whenever I want. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headache 126 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 Defensive wrestling is FAR more sophisticated now than in the 80's. That's the difference. Not referreeing. Disagree. If stalling rules were enforced, the "defensive" wrestlers would have to open up and expose themselves. IMO it's all on the referees and these rule adjustments will do little to improve the quality of college wrestling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GranbyTroll 441 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 (edited) I love the push out in freestyle, but I am leery about it folkstyle. ... I predict the Russian tie makes a big comeback as a point scoring move. Daniel Dennis was a man before his time! We have data for this from freestyle. It did not turn into a sumo match, and the two-on-one is not the end-all of moves in a field heavily populated by ACTUAL RUSSIANS edit: PS- It was really hard for me to not to try to troll you about this, but this is such a spurious argument that I decided to play it straight for the good of the sport. Edited June 9, 2015 by GranbyTroll Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OtisCampbell 94 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 The biggest rule change needed is one that would makes refs unwilling to call rules that are in place more accountable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Idaho 839 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 This is all great until your team gets the quick stall call Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zebra 545 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 Headache, do you really believe that? If so you have not been paying attention. And it's not just a "defensive vs. offensive" wrestler argument, all wrestlers have improved their defense a ton in the last two decades. Many have or are in the process of transitioning to counter offensive wrestlers and scrambling ability is going to be #1. The difference between freestyle and folk-style scrambling is comparing apples and beef jerky. Not only will they not be in the same Family they won't even be in the same Kingdom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2td3nf 547 Report post Posted June 9, 2015 I think they're trying to change the interpretation of "engaged in wrestling" when they walk off the wrestling area. Actually, the rule has always been there to give the ref the authority to penalize wrestlers for leaving the wrestling area. They just never called it, for whatever reasons. A few years ago, Rakkasan was kind enough to post Dr. McCormick's rule interpretation of "engaged in wrestling" which, IMO, pretty much let the wrestlers walk right off the mat as long as there was any sort of contact, or even minimal engagement in wrestling. Looks like they're now trying to tighten it up by not letting them walk off with just an underhook, etc. If I remember correctly, the refs still didn't enforce this rule at the trial NWCA tournament last year. Well, we'll see how they call it next year. Said it before and I'll say it again, IMO, the push/step out rule would make folkstyle a million times more exciting. Wouldn't it be great to see these fantastic NCAA athletes be forced to stay on the mat and wrestle the full match without the cheap timeouts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heelpick 116 Report post Posted June 10, 2015 Nothing is going to make wrestling exciting until there is a change in mindset on the part of coaches and the wrestlers themselves. We can tweak the rules and pretend they will make the matches better all we want, but until athletes as whole change their strategy of stall and counter, we will still be stuck with same boring product. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bloate 61 Report post Posted June 10, 2015 An athlete's strategy is simple, win. I am fan of OK St wrestling and was happy to see Perry win a title in OKC. But as evidenced by his finals match in the conference tournament and the Nationals, he was committed solely to winning, found a way to beat Howe and utilized it. There was no doubt in Perry or Coach Smith's mind that every one in attendance at both events, with the exception of OSU faithful, were going to scream for stalling. Didn't matter. Only thing that would have changed his strategy was a rule change that would not allow a win using a double leg ride. Off topic: after the conf. tourney, I predicted that Perry had created a monster and that there was no way Howe would allow Perry to put in the legs and that Howe would win handily. I guess because of that I really appreciated Perry's ride more than I normally would have. Also I do not believe Perry was "stalling" under the current rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaroslav Hasek 1,905 Report post Posted June 10, 2015 athletes and coaches can change their mindset and then implement whatever strategy they want, if that mindset and strategy results in loses they are going to change back pretty quickly. my suggestion is to watch the last couple NCAA finals and then watch the WTT this weekend and then please tell me the step out rule wouldn't make folkstyle better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 991 Report post Posted June 10, 2015 athletes and coaches can change their mindset and then implement whatever strategy they want, if that mindset and strategy results in loses they are going to change back pretty quickly. my suggestion is to watch the last couple NCAA finals and then watch the WTT this weekend and then please tell me the step out rule wouldn't make folkstyle better. It makes it a sumo match, can't you see it? Geesh! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GranbyTroll 441 Report post Posted June 10, 2015 Nothing is going to make wrestling exciting until there is a change in mindset on the part of coaches and the wrestlers themselves. We can tweak the rules and pretend they will make the matches better all we want, but until athletes as whole change their strategy of stall and counter, we will still be stuck with same boring product. Do you remember ball-grab era freestyle? Most of the overseas opponents and coaches figured out pretty quickly that the best strategy was to stall for 1:30 and then try to grab a takedown at the end. Now, we have World Championship finals filled with 4pt takedowns and exciting matches. What changed? 1 HuskyHero133 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LkwdSteve 142 Report post Posted June 10, 2015 athletes and coaches can change their mindset and then implement whatever strategy they want, if that mindset and strategy results in loses they are going to change back pretty quickly. my suggestion is to watch the last couple NCAA finals and then watch the WTT this weekend and then please tell me the step out rule wouldn't make folkstyle better. Push out from neutral = gain a point Push out while riding = lose a point Just so we're clear. 1 GranbyTroll reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
