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wrestlingnerd

Can 74 kg get more epic?

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Brackets are out and they are exactly what I'd hoped they'd be. DT on the top half, KD on the bottom. DT faces the baby monster Anthony Valencia if Valencia can beat Caldwell again. KD has to beat Sponseller first, then the winner of Howe-Godley to make it to DT.

 

I want to see Valencia vs. DT more than any other match at this weight. DT is DT but Valencia has more than a puncher's chance, in my view.

 

I can't wait!!

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A few thoughts:

 

1) Taylor 1 and Howe 2 is right. But how did Dake get 3? What has he done in the last two years to come in ahead of Valencia? I'm not complaining though as Valencia and Howe wrestled at the US Open, whereas Taylor and Valencia did not. 

 

2) I wish Ringer was here. 

 

3) It's incredible that Burroughs has been able to rule 74kg for four years and counting. So much talent here. Based on men's weight distribution this has to be one of the most competitive weight classes, period. 

Edited by Katie

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I am hoping Taylor beats Valencia impressively, gets by Dake finally, and then beats Burroughs 2 out of 3 matches. But back to reality. Taylor should have his way with Valencia, but I would not be surprised to see him get blast doubled once or twice by the young kid. I see Taylor winning like 14-4. I then see Dake beating Taylor in a razor close match, I just think it is all mental. Then Burroughs beats Dake 2 straight. 

 

I will say this, if Valencia some how beats Taylor, DT will never be the same. 

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I am hoping Taylor beats Valencia impressively, gets by Dake finally, and then beats Burroughs 2 out of 3 matches. But back to reality. Taylor should have his way with Valencia, but I would not be surprised to see him get blast doubled once or twice by the young kid. I see Taylor winning like 14-4. I then see Dake beating Taylor in a razor close match, I just think it is all mental. Then Burroughs beats Dake 2 straight. 

 

I will say this, if Valencia some how beats Taylor, DT will never be the same. 

 

I think Taylor beats Valencia, but I don't think it will be by a wide margin.Valencia took Howe down twice before giving up seven points and losing 4-7. Right after that Taylor only beat Howe 2-0. Valencia certainly has the ability to score on Taylor and keep it close, and I expect him to do so. 

 

As for Dake, we haven't seen him against good competition for two years, so anything could happen. He might now be better than he was back then, or he might be worse. We'll see. 

Edited by Katie

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A few thoughts:

 

1) Taylor 1 and Howe 2 is right. But how did Dake get 3? What has he done in the last two years to come in ahead of Valencia? I'm not complaining though as Valencia and Howe wrestled at the US Open, whereas Taylor and Valencia did not. 

 

2) I wish Ringer was here. 

 

3) It's incredible that Burroughs has been able to rule it for four years and counting. So much talent here. Based on men's weight distribution this has to be one of the most competitive weight classes, period. 

 

1. He beat Howe. Sure, it was a 9-minute match, but it's something. He has also owned DT in the not so distant past. Unless they publish the seeding criteria very specfically, we'll never know how far back accomplishments matter, and how much of a discount they get relative to what  you have done this year. But in the past, USAW has valued past accomplishments to some degree; hence, former World medalists, etc. able to get preferential treatment for entry into top competitions.

 

2. Amen. I think he'd be very competitive but lose to KD and DT. He has a decent chance of beating Howe, though that match would be a typically boring Howe affair with tons of handfighting.

 

3. JB is a freak. No more needs to be said.

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Agree, Chasden - I'd love to see DT win tomorrow. For better or worse, his style has traditionally been much more "Manny Pacquiao" than "Floyd Mayweather" and I needlessly worry that his recent BTS and US Open wins will give him the false confidence to get sloppy on offense and let loose. Not that he would be that foolish, but still.

 

Taylor - Dake, if it happens, will be an interesting match because of the potential "Howe effect" on Dake. I'm expecting another grindout between Dake & Howe in the semis, with the heaviest of hands, wear on the head & neck, lots of physical pressure from Andrew. That could take quite a lot out of Kyle Dake physically, and could translate into a bit of an advantage for David Taylor.

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I will say this, if Valencia some how beats Taylor, DT will never be the same. 

 

I prefer to think of it as Valencia will never be the same. Beating DT would be such a mental boost that he would immediately graduate from baby monster to full-on monster and be a fixture in the upper echelon of our toughest weight. The kid has so much raw talent. If he can prove to himself that what he needs is mere refinement, and not wholesale stylistic change, his confidence is going to go through the roof.

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1. He beat Howe. Sure, it was a 9-minute match, but it's something. He has also owned DT in the not so distant past.

 

I think relying so heavily results from two years ago is a stretch. It would be different if he had avoided Americans for two years but won Yarygin or something this year. But there's nothing to go on. I just think it's odd to seed him that high given his inactivity. The message is "avoid wrestling as much as you can and we'll still give you a good seed."

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I think relying so heavily results from two years ago is a stretch. It would be different if he had avoided Americans for two years but won Yarygin or something this year. But there's nothing to go on. I just think it's odd to seed him that high given his inactivity. The message is "avoid wrestling as much as you can and we'll still give you a good seed."

 

Or maybe it's "if you get injured after becoming the clear #2 and come back and show no significant rust, we understand."

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He beat Howe this season albeit in an exhibition with odd rules before he hit injured. I feel 3 is the right seed for Dake.

 

Ah I forgot about that match. Interesting. Perhaps 3 is the right seed after all, but I'll have to think about it.

 

I had assumed they were only going off results from 2 years ago. 

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And we know there is no rust because?

 

He hasn't lost. He beat the #2 seed and walked through the qualifying tournament. The latter was and admittedly weak tournament but it is nevertheless a fully sanctioned qualifying tournament that should absolutely count for seeding purposes.

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Ah I forgot about that match. Interesting. Perhaps 3 is the right seed after all, but I'll have to think about it.

 

I had assumed they were only going off results from 2 years ago. 

 

Even if they were, the question is whether current season performance should be the ONLY criteria or not. If so, then JB shouldn't get to sit at the top and skip qualifying.

 

You can't have it both ways. If you want to incentivize the country's top talent to compete for as long as possible and have the best shot at representing our country, then you have to extend courtesy not just to the top guy, but also the field at large to some degree. It's not like Kyle Dake is some bozo off the streets who decided to slip into a singlet to give the sport a try. Would there be as much of an uproar if KD was the reigning World bronze and JB had gotten injured and was now entered into the mini-tourney? By your logic, none of JB's past accomplishments should matter then.

 

I'm totally OK either way. Reward past performance to try to get the best possible guys to compete. Or don't, and base it all on current season results. But don't' do a little of this and a little of that. That's BS.

 

Finally, is it such a crime that KD is #3? I mean, he did get punished for not competing. He might otherwise have been #1, in DT's spot, and gotten a bye. I thought the seeding made a lot of sense.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Even if they were, the question is whether current season performance should be the ONLY criteria or not. If so, then JB shouldn't get to sit at the top and skip qualifying.

 

You can't have it both ways. If you want to incentivize the country's top talent to compete for as long as possible and have the best shot at representing our country, then you have to extend courtesy not just to the top guy, but also the field at large to some degree. It's not like Kyle Dake is some bozo off the streets who decided to slip into a singlet to give the sport a try. Would there be as much of an uproar if KD was the reigning World bronze and JB had gotten injured and was now entered into the mini-tourney? By your logic, none of JB's past accomplishments should matter then.

 

I'm totally OK either way. Reward past performance to try to get the best possible guys to compete. Or don't, and base it all on current season results. But don't' do a little of this and a little of that. That's BS.

 

Finally, is it such a crime that KD is #3? I mean, he did get punished for not competing. He might otherwise have been #1, in DT's spot, and gotten a bye. I thought the seeding made a lot of sense.

 

If Burroughs hadn't competed against real competition for two years, I would be unsure of where he was at. 

 

As for Dake- he could have gone to the US Open this year but he didn't. I think that's strange. 

Edited by Katie

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As for Dake- he could have gone to the US Open this year but he didn't. I think that's strange. 

 

I think it's smart. KD was injured not once but twice back to back and three times in two years. It's strange that he is taking his path to recovery conservatively?

 

JB could've competed in the US Open too, like he did last year. He didn't because he didn't want to give his opponents any more looks because they were starting to wrestle him tougher. He said so himself. Is that also strange? Or smart?

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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I think it's smart. KD was injured not once but twice back to back and three times in two years. It's strange that he is taking his path to recovery conservatively?

 

JB could've competed in the US Open too, like he did last year. He didn't because he didn't want to give his opponents any more looks because they were starting to wrestle him tougher. He said so himself. Is that also strange? Or smart?

 

My assumption is if he's healthy for the WTT now, he was probably healthy enough for the US Open a month ago. So in that context, what is the rationale for skipping the US Open?

 

I am not Dake's doctor, so I don't know if he was injured a month ago. He very well may have been too injured for the US Open. I don't know. He can do what he wants. He can retire completely if he feels like it.

 

But if he doesn't wrestle any notable freestyle matches for two years, I am not sure he deserves the three seed. That's all.

 

For all I know he'll come out and dominate the field. The problem is no recent results tell us one way or the other. 

Edited by Katie

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To answer your question, it actually could. Bring back Burroughs, Dake, Taylor, Howe, and Valencia....

 

Then add Dieringer, Hall, Marsteller, L. Massa, Bo Jordan (long shot)

 

Didn't Marsteller just lose bad twice in a row to a high schooler?

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I'm not knocking Dake for not aggravating an injury. He very well may have been too injured for the US Open a month ago. I don't know. He can do what he wants. He can retire completely if he feels like it.

 

But if he doesn't wrestle any notable freestyle matches for two years, I am not sure he deserves the three seed. That's all.

 

For all I know he'll come out and dominate the field. The problem is no recent results tell us one way or the other. 

 

That's why he's #3, not #1 in the mini-tourney. Seeding was plenty fair.

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I love Valencia, but he's going to have to beat Caldwell first (again, and I'm sure Caldwell is more prepared this time).  nobody should be overlooking him.  Saying that, I see Valencia beating TC and then loosing to DT but scoring some points on him.  

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