Buckxell 145 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 I just had a question about their club and funding. Are they currently paying a stipend for their guys... And in particular, are they paying or have they paid stipends to Gomez and Espinal? If so, I'm not sure how I feel about this given their success and world medals for other countries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ElChangodeAmor 12 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 So the Yankees and Dodgers shouldnt be paying for players outside of the U.S. either? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jefe 8 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 Gomez and Espinal are US cItizens. Just curious, not trying to be an ass here: did you feel the same way about Smith giving a scholarship to Gelogaev? Zalesky giving one to Dhesi? Novachkov going to Cal Poly, then training and coaching at Illinois while wrestling for Bulgaria? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scribe 1,848 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 They are a regional training center, right? I doubt the club is paying them anything. Their respective countries should definitely foot bills. Not USA wrestling. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckxell 145 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 Gomez and Espinal are US cItizens. Just curious, not trying to be an ass here: did you feel the same way about Smith giving a scholarship to Gelogaev? Zalesky giving one to Dhesi? Novachkov going to Cal Poly, then training and coaching at Illinois while wrestling for Bulgaria? I really don't think it's a big deal giving scholarships to those wrestlers you mentioned bc those programs are benefitting from them. As far as Novachkov, he's being paid for coaching, so I see that as being paid for a job he's doing. If Gomez and Espinal were paid to coach, I would think that's fine. 1 swoopdown reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckxell 145 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 They are a regional training center, right? I doubt the club is paying them anything. Their respective countries should definitely foot bills. Not USA wrestling. Agreed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SetonHallPirate 993 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 Stupid question...what are the qualifications for representing Puerto Rico instead of the United States? Only reason I ask is, anybody from Puerto Rico is, by definition, a citizen of the United States. Ever been to the San Juan Airport? If you're flying in from the continental United States, you didn't clear customs and immigration there on your way in, or, once back in the U.S., on arrival at the airport you flew to from San Juan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NYWRESTLER94 221 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 SHP I believe you just have to have some sort of ties to Puerto Rico like being Puerto Rican or being raised there 3x AA from Hofstra Jon Massa represented them at the world championships way back and Franklin Gomez represents them though he is actually Dominican he was raised in Puerto Rico Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manyak 184 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 Everyone should train with everyone else if they want to. Espinal and Gomez should get stipends from the NLWC if they need it to continue their wrestling careers. 1 swoopdown reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckxell 145 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Everyone should train with everyone else if they want to. Espinal and Gomez should get stipends from the NLWC if they need it to continue their wrestling careers. First, we still haven't confirmed whether or not they get funding. Secondly, if I was a competitor I would probably go to the place with the best training situation and money. I just feel it's somewhat unpatriotic and against USA wrestling to fund non-US wrestlers. I couldn't imagine Russia paying for Jordan Burroughs to train in Russia if he were to still compete for US, and I would want funds to be allocated to help our world and Olympic team hopefuls before other countries. But all of this discussion is moot if we don't know whether they get funding or not. Edited June 20, 2015 by Buckxell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katie 1,076 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 I just had a question about their club and funding. Are they currently paying a stipend for their guys... And in particular, are they paying or have they paid stipends to Gomez and Espinal? If so, I'm not sure how I feel about this given their success and world medals for other countries. When did Puerto Rico become another country? I missed that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Billyhoyle 2,500 Report post Posted June 20, 2015 As long as the funds are coming from NLWC and not USA Wrestling it's fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manyak 184 Report post Posted June 21, 2015 First, we still haven't confirmed whether or not they get funding. Secondly, if I was a competitor I would probably go to the place with the best training situation and money. I just feel it's somewhat unpatriotic and against USA wrestling to fund non-US wrestlers. I couldn't imagine Russia paying for Jordan Burroughs to train in Russia if he were to still compete for US, and I would want funds to be allocated to help our world and Olympic team hopefuls before other countries. But all of this discussion is moot if we don't know whether they get funding or not. Many Ossetians (Russian nationals) cheered for Gazuymov, wrestling for Azerbaijan, to beat Gadisov, a Dagestani wrestling for Russia at Euro 2015. You might see 5-10 different 'countries' represented in a practice in Ossetia or Dagestan. They wrestle for whoever will give them money and an opportunity. I'm sure Jordan would be welcome in Russia. They let Andy Hrovat and many other Americans train with them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckxell 145 Report post Posted June 21, 2015 Many Ossetians (Russian nationals) cheered for Gazuymov, wrestling for Azerbaijan, to beat Gadisov, a Dagestani wrestling for Russia at Euro 2015. You might see 5-10 different 'countries' represented in a practice in Ossetia or Dagestan. They wrestle for whoever will give them money and an opportunity. I'm sure Jordan would be welcome in Russia. They let Andy Hrovat and many other Americans train with them. Thanks Manyak. In the case of Hrovat, I believe he paid for all expenses to train overseas. I think there's a difference between being welcome to train, and being funded to train while not representing that clubs home country. Have you seen or heard of any similar circumstances overseas... Where a wrestler was funded by a club in one country and wrestled for another country? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olddirty 347 Report post Posted June 22, 2015 Thanks Manyak. In the case of Hrovat, I believe he paid for all expenses to train overseas. I think there's a difference between being welcome to train, and being funded to train while not representing that clubs home country. Have you seen or heard of any similar circumstances overseas... Where a wrestler was funded by a club in one country and wrestled for another country? Taymazov Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckxell 145 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 Taymazov Interesting... What club was he funded by? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckxell 145 Report post Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Taymazov The bios that I've seen of him say that he wrestles for Dynamo Tashkent wrestling club and his coaches that are listed are Salim Abduvaliev and Akhrol Ruziev... So a Uzbek club and Uzbek coaches. It says Salim is a big business guy and I'm assuming that club and Salim is where he gets his funding. I'm sure he might train all over the place, but it seems like the country he's winning medals for is the one providing the funding. I realize you and Manyak know way more about these international guys, so I could be completely wrong... Just thought it was an interesting and unprecedented situation at NLWC and trying to see if it's more common than I think. Edited June 25, 2015 by Buckxell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckxell 145 Report post Posted June 30, 2015 Could funding have played any part on Ruth leaving NLWC, or was it strictly motivated by mma training opportunities? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swoopdown 631 Report post Posted June 30, 2015 As far as I know he was searching for some magic bullet (coaching, training partners) that might put him over the top in wrestling. MMA was and continues to be a definite distraction .... According to Cael "I wasn't real surprised,'' he said. "(Ed's) kind of been in and out of here, just training MMA, back, then going to another MMA gym." He's got a family so MMA $s are a definite attention getter I would think. Don't think that sunkist $ are any advantage for him Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manyak 184 Report post Posted June 30, 2015 Could funding have played any part on Ruth leaving NLWC, or was it strictly motivated by mma training opportunities? I doubt it. Espinal has only posted one excellent result ever and his other results are mixed/mediocre. He's also in his 30's. Ruth and Herbert are good friends and train together and Herbert was directly responsible for Ruth not making a world team. I'm pretty sure he just wanted to train MMA and prefers ASU and the environment over there for that. I got the feeling him and Cael were never really that close anyways. He claims to not have known who Cael was when he got recruited. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sockobuw 49 Report post Posted June 30, 2015 I doubt it. Espinal has only posted one excellent result ever and his other results are mixed/mediocre. He's also in his 30's. Ruth and Herbert are good friends and train together and Herbert was directly responsible for Ruth not making a world team. I'm pretty sure he just wanted to train MMA and prefers ASU and the environment over there for that. I got the feeling him and Cael were never really that close anyways. He claims to not have known who Cael was when he got recruited. what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
swoopdown 631 Report post Posted June 30, 2015 I got the feeling him and Cael were never really that close anyways. He claims to not have known who Cael was when he got recruited. Or maybe too close ... Cael was an authority figure who had to suspend Ruth when he had trouble. Could be that adult Ruth needs some space from kid Ruth and a fresh start. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manyak 184 Report post Posted July 1, 2015 what? I don't think Ed Ruth left because NWLC supports a 'foreign' wrestler in his weight class who has posted good results. As far as Ed not knowing who Cael was, it has been widely reported he was recruited by the previous coach and did not go to Penn State for Cael and claims not to have followed wrestling or known him http://board.themat.com/index.php?/topic/5803-what-do-some-people-have-against-penn-state/page-4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buckxell 145 Report post Posted July 1, 2015 I just read the Wikipedia page for Espinal... If that is accurate, that is an amazing story!! He wrestled from age of 9 to about 15 for the same club as Franklin Gomez and then quit wrestling. He went to college and didn't wrestle in college and took up breakdancing. He went back to wrestling in his mid twenties and won Olympic silver 2 years later!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manyak 184 Report post Posted July 1, 2015 He's very athletic. I think he won the Dan Kolov tournament and that is his only other major performance. He has a ton of losses to pedestrian competition. I guess winning when it counts is more important than consistency. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
