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Katie

Dake discussion

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Big picture; it's just a shame we only have 8/6 weight classes. NCAA has 10. International used to have 10. If the women need 10, so be it.  IMO, 10 is perfect.

 

Not just the case of DT, KD and JB, but probably all of the competitive countries have big logjams as well. 

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In folkstyle I would take Dake 10 out of 10. Don't see any way Burroughs could win even with the two and half year age advantage.

 

In Greco I would take Dake 10 out of 10.

 

But the Olympic style is freestyle. 

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Is there anyone that would agree that Dake was better in the two matches, with the exception of about 10 seconds in Match 1 and 20 seconds in Match 2?

 

Funny to hear all the same arguments being made about Dake v JB that were made about Taylor v Dake when Dake kept winning. I feel so liberated now that I have finally accepted that Dake is actually better than Taylor and I would suggest the same.

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In folkstyle I would take Dake 10 out of 10. Don't see any way Burroughs could win even with the two and half year age advantage.

 

In Greco I would take Dake 10 out of 10.

 

But the Olympic style is freestyle. 

I've read some crazy stuff on the internet. This is right up there with the best of them.

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So the first fantasy matchup Dake ever wins is against Jordan Burroughs?!? Now that is impressive!

 

Personally, I think JB wins more often than not in any style, but I think they are close and Dake will steal a few. From the matches they have had in freestyle, I do believe Dake is capable of beating him, but JB knows how to find a way to win. 

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I can't see any path that leads to Dake beating JB in any style.  

 

Well Dake should be favored in Greco, but so what?  The 10/10 in folkstyle comment is crazy.  It's also hypothetical, so again, whatever.  I simply don't agree that Dake out-wrestled Burroughs despite losing -- there were some close calls that went against Dake, yes.  The first match was razor tight then Burroughs successfully defended Dake's throw, no one disputes that, however maybe he shouldn't have received as many points.  Still he was in position to win the match, albeit by a hair.  In the second match, Dake got those four straight points because Burroughs was hanging on to an 8 point lead.  Maybe JB jumped the whistle, that's not what I would say, but again Dake should have been ready for it since JB goes for a takedown right at the whistle ALL THE TIME.  Burroughs doesn't let up that offense from Dake, as dynamic as Kyle looked, without hanging on to a lead.  It's purely speculate to say how the match would go without that lead, but to conclude Dake looked better is biased.  Especially because Burroughs proceeded to score two big moves on him to end the match.  Do some fans just have selective memory?  Probably just like Taylor fans who think he's right there with Dake just can't get over the hump.

Edited by bwh27

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In folkstyle I would take Dake 10 out of 10. Don't see any way Burroughs could win even with the two and half year age advantage.

 

In Greco I would take Dake 10 out of 10.

 

But the Olympic style is freestyle. 

 

This is the first time I've ever heard people cling to a "two-and-a-half year advantage" when it comes to senior level freestyle. But let's entertain this unusual excuse for a second. Let's rewind Burroughs's career by two and a half years, and compare his career then to Dake's career today. 

 

JB-   2011 WTT champ, 2012 OTT champ, 2011 world champ, 2012 Olympic champ, 40-0. 

Dake-   2013 WTT runner up, 2015 WTT runner up, 15-6? (not sure of Dake's freestyle record but I know he has losses to JB x4, Aliyev, and Gadzhiev)

 

So even if you make JB and Dake the same age, it appears to me JB's still better than Dake.

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i'm starting to think straggler is a secret Dake hater who posts nonsense just to get other people to point out ways Burroughs is better. 

No agenda. It is just that rule differences, what counts as points and most especially the mat wrestling favor Dake overwhelmingly. To have a chance Burroughs would have to try to stay neutral but Burroughs would not be able to ride him, would get ridden (unless he pulled another whistle jump as in the Leen match), and Dake would have the chance to take him down himself. Dake is better in two of three positions in folk and can slow the match in nuetral down, especially without a push out. So 10/10.  

Edited by straggler

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No agenda. It is just that rule differences, what counts as points and most especially the mat wrestling favor Dake overwhelmingly. To have a chance Burroughs would have to try to stay neutral but Burroughs would not be able to ride him, would get ridden (unless he pulled another whistle jump as in the Leen match), and Dake would have the chance to take him down himself. Dake is better in two of three positions in folk and can slow the match in nuetral down, especially without a push out. So 10/10.  

yes you paint a vivid picture. i can tell you'd seen these folkstyle matches in your mind and Dake wins all 10. unfortunately when actual matches are wrestled it is Burroughs who gets his hand raised every time. 

 

anyway, please continue beating this drum if you want people to root against Dake. in that regard you have been quite successful. 

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Can't help but be impressed by Dake against Burroughs, he is right there..........yet at the same time, that's common in big matches and guys like Burroughs consistently come out on the right side. Dake is used being that, the guy who wins close with a better mental edge.  That's why I am coming away from this impressed with Dake, but even more impressed with Burroughs. No one has a mental edge on Dake. Burroughs beat him there. The start in the second match was an example. Burroughs was just mentally tougher and sharper, and that says something against an all time winner like Dake who uses that as a strength.                I think Burroughs could be wrestling as good as he is in his career. He seems alot more focused after the loss at the world championships last year. I think this burroughs would of crushed Taylor their last few meetings.        All in all I think Dake might have the best competitive edge and be the best gamer on the usa roster, but the problem is Burroughs just proved he is even moreso. Not good for Dake.

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Dake is a fantastic wrestler. NCAA legend. His record 4x different weight class titles put him on par with Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hitting streak, IMO.

 

But Jordan Burroughs happens to be another wrestling legend as well. Olympic Gold medalist, 2x World champion, and World Bronze in 4 years, and he probably didn't even reach his peak yet. What he go, 69-0 or something before he finally lost?

 

Internationally, JB is already one of the best wrestlers of all time.  

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yes you paint a vivid picture. i can tell you'd seen these folkstyle matches in your mind and Dake wins all 10. unfortunately when actual matches are wrestled it is Burroughs who gets his hand raised every time. 

 

anyway, please continue beating this drum if you want people to root against Dake. in that regard you have been quite successful. 

Sorry but Dake had a substantially more impressive folkstyle career than Burroughs. Is that even debatable? No. Did I say that Dake was better in freestyle? No again. The point is that these are very different styles with very different scoring criteria. You cannot substitute Burrough's international success for what he didn't accomplish in college anymore than judge Dake's international career by how many NCAA titles he won. . 

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can we go by number of conference titles won while in college? 

How about the number of NCAA titles? Or the number of Hodge winner's they beat? Of the number of championships their finals opponents won? Or who red shirted and who didn't? 

 

Accuse me of hating Burrough's but I never said Dake was better than him in International wrestling. On the other hand all the goalpost moving on earth will not change the fact that Dake had a far superior college career. It would be like me saying that Dake is better in freestyle regardless of what Burroughs has accomplished. 

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