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Katie

Dake discussion

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Collegiate success is awesome and something to be proud of but NCAA success without international success does not make you a legend of the sport. 

 

If Burroughs and Dake were football players:

 

Dake would be Tim Tebow - One of the most successful college careers ever.  Little to no success in the NFL.

 

Burroughs would be Tom Brady - LEGEND

 

Which would you rather be?

It is comparing different sports. Burroughs could win the next two gold medals and Dake still be superior in folkstyle. 

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Different styles. Burroughs is perfectly suited for freestyle. Burroughs is very explosive and great in the neutral position. That is what freestyle values. It is comparatively one dimensional. 

Interesting way of saying no.

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This thread keeps going because people are being hypersensitive. I simply pointed out that I thought Dake is a better folkstyle wrestler. Because he was.

 

Freestyle is one-dimensional and rewards one set of skills. What if freestyle instead emphasized mat wrestling and had no neutral position wrestling? Would that favor Burroughs given his skill set? Of course not. But instead freestyle hyperemphasizes the neutral position offense, eliminates much of the defense based on its exposure rules and rules regarding control as well as the push out rule, eliminates escape points and most of all eliminates mat wrestling. These were the things Dake dominated. That is why it is an apples and oranges comparison. Burroughs is perfectly suited for freestyle. Doesn't make him the greatest folkstyle wrestler. 

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Not sensitive at all, I simply believe Burroughs is a better wrestler in either style. JB was no chump in NCAAs either. He may not be a 4 timer but he obviously took care of business. Folkstyle doesn't matter now that b9th have graduated.

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If both careers were to end today.  Burroughs is a LEGEND and we would compare Burroughs to the all time greats.  Dake is just a kid with a good college career.  Dake would rank behind anyone that ever won a world or olympic medal and 95% of guys that just made a team. 

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This thread keeps going because people are being hypersensitive. I simply pointed out that I thought Dake is a better folkstyle wrestler. Because he was.

 

Freestyle is one-dimensional and rewards one set of skills. What if freestyle instead emphasized mat wrestling and had no neutral position wrestling? Would that favor Burroughs given his skill set? Of course not. But instead freestyle hyperemphasizes the neutral position offense, eliminates much of the defense based on its exposure rules and rules regarding control as well as the push out rule, eliminates escape points and most of all eliminates mat wrestling. These were the things Dake dominated. That is why it is an apples and oranges comparison. Burroughs is perfectly suited for freestyle. Doesn't make him the greatest folkstyle wrestler. 

 

(guy who never wrestled freestyle)

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Dake is just a guy who had a 'good' college career? Lol

 

Straggler -- I'll bet Dake didn't think Burroughs or Freestyle is one dimensional when he he was getting turned like a top!

That whole sequence would had landed Burroughs 2 points in folk. Then Dake immediate escapes. Dake then gets a takedown and rides Burroughs out for the rest of the period. Etc. 

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If both careers were to end today.  Burroughs is a LEGEND and we would compare Burroughs to the all time greats.  Dake is just a kid with a good college career.  Dake would rank behind anyone that ever won a world or olympic medal and 95% of guys that just made a team. 

So Dake would rank below Cejudo? If Green win;s a world medal despite never making an NCAA final, would he rank below Green? Or maybe the styles are so different that the comparison is faulty, and maybe freestyle is so one -dimensional that it isn't the best indicator of comparative skill. 

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For those of you just joining, there's been an astonishing turn of events in this thread.

 

Not too long ago, Dake's real life performances far outshined his fantasy performances. In real life, Dake was a rare 4x NCAA champ with an outstanding record of 137-4, but his fantasy record was 0-500. Dake always found a way to win in real life, but when the fantasies starting rolling in he just couldn't catch a break.

 

But now that college is over and he competes in freestyle, things have changed. In real life, Dake is 0-4 against Burroughs, got teched twice, and only scored one takedown on his own offense. But in fantasy matchups, Dake is 10-0 against Burroughs, takes him down at will, and rides him out with no problems. 

 

Fascinating stuff. 

Edited by Katie

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For those of you just joining, there's been an astonishing turn of events in this thread.

 

Not too long ago, Dake's real life performances far outshined his fantasy performances. In real life, Dake was a rare 4x NCAA champ with an outstanding record of 137-4, but his fantasy record was 0-500. Dake always found a way to win in real life, but when the fantasies starting rolling in he just couldn't catch a break.

 

But now that college is over and he competes in freestyle, things have changed. In real life, Dake is 0-4 against Burroughs, got teched twice, and only scored one takedown on his own offense. But in fantasy matchups, Dake is 10-0 against Burroughs, takes him down at will, and rides him out with no problems. 

 

Fascinating stuff. 

Different styles. Different scoring. Different everything.

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Who did Dake ever beat in college to suggest he could beat Burroughs?

Beat Humphreys as a true treshman, a returning finalist. Beat Marion, a two time finalist. Beat Molinaro, an NCAA champion. Beat St. John, an NCAA champion. Beat Taylor, a two time Hodge winner. Burroughs beat Poeta. 

 

Freestyle emphasizes just one aspect of wrestling while eliminating all the mat wrestling.  

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Burroughs beat multiple NCAA champions in college including Bubba Jenkins, Dustin Schlatter, Leen, Howe, Darrion Caldwell, JP O'Connor and a bunch of NCAA finalists too.  So actually he has more major wins than Dake did, which means very little considering the level of competition you face is arbitrary and Dake would have rolled through everyone to win NCAAs no matter what.  Dake's a better folk wrestler, not sure how you can say otherwise.  I also think it's absurd to say he'd win 10/10 since Burroughs was an insanely elite folk wrestler too (much, much better than the 4 losses Dake had in his career btw).

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Freestyle absolutely does not emphasize one aspect of wrestling. Watch the Russians, you'll see lots of excellent counter-offense, and "mat" wrestling turning into big points, all the time. 

 

Never thought I'd say this, but IMO, freestyle is much more exciting than folkstyle.

 

 

Alright, once again, IMO:

 

JB: Already an American wrestling legend who may not have even peaked yet. Keep going Champ - we're so proud of you!

 

KD: Extraordinary wrestler, and his 4x different weight class NCAA titles may last for a very, very long time. One of the best NCAA wrestlers ever, and can compete with the best in the World right now as well..

 

DT: The Magicman, although he fell short to the two above in the past, DT is still very dangerous, and has the talent to compete with anyone. Let's see if DT can bring a little magic to Spain this week. 

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